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理想国|The Republic

第二卷|BOOK II

属类: 双语小说 【分类】双语小说 -[作者: 柏拉图] 阅读:[4130]
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苏:我说了那么些话,原以为该说的都说了。谁知这不过才是个开场白呢!格劳孔素来见义勇为,而又猛烈过人。他对色拉叙马霍斯的那么容易认输颇不以为然。他说:

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格:苏格拉底,你说无论如何正义总比不正义好,你是真心实意想说服我们呢,还是不过装着要说服我们呢?

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苏:让我自己选择的话,我要说我是真心实意想要这么做的。

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格:你光这么想,可没这么做。你同意不同意:有那么一种善,我们乐意要它,只是要它本身,而不是要它的后果。比方象欢乐和无害的娱乐,它们并没有什么后果,不过快乐而已。

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苏:不错,看来是有这种事的。

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格:另外还有一种善,我们之所以爱它既为了它本身,又为了它的后果。比如明白事理,视力好,身体健康。我认为,我们欢迎这些东西,是为了两个方面。

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苏:是的。

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格:你见到第三种善没有?例如体育锻炼啦,害了病要求医,因此就有医术啦,总的说,就是赚钱之术,都属这一类。

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说起来这些事可算是苦事,但是有利可得,我们爱它们并不是为了它们本身,而是为了报酬和其他种种随之而来的利益。

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苏:啊!是的,是有第三种,可那又怎么样呢?

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格:你看正义属于第几种?

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苏:依我看,正义属于最好的一种。一个人要想快乐,就得爱它——既因为它本身,又因为它的后果。

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格:一般人可不是这样想的,他们认为正义是一件苦事。

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他们拼着命去干,图的是它的名和利。至于正义本身,人们是害怕的,是想尽量回避的。

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苏:我也知道一般人是这样想的。色拉叙马霍斯正是因为把所有这些看透了,所以才干脆贬低正义而赞颂不正义的。但是我恨自己太愚蠢,要想学他学不起来。

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格:让我再说两句,看你能不能同意。我觉得色拉叙马霍斯是被你弄得晕头转向了,就象一条蛇被迷住了似的,他对你屈服得太快了。但是我对你所提出的关于正义与不正义的论证还要表示不满意。我想知道到底什么是正义,什么是不正义①;它们在心灵里各产生什么样的力量②;至于正义和不正义的报酬和后果我主张暂且不去管它。如果你支持的话,我们就来这么干。我打算把色拉叙马霍斯的论证复述一遍。第一,我先说一般人认为的正义的本质和起源;第二,我再说所有把正义付诸行动的人都不是心甘情愿的,实在是不得已而为之的,不是因为正义本身善而去做的;第三我说,他们这样看待正义是有几分道理的,因为从他们的谈话听起来,好象不正义之人日子过得比正义的人要好得多。苏格拉底啊,你可别误解了,须知这并不是我自己的想法。但是我满耳朵听到的却是这样的议论,色拉叙马霍斯也好,其他各色各样的人也好,都是众口一词,这真叫我为难。相反我却从来没有听见有人象样地为正义说句好话,证明正义比不正义好,能让我满意的。我倒真想听到呢!看来唯一的希望只好寄托在你身上了。因此,我要尽力赞美不正义的生活。用这个办法让你看着我的样子去赞扬正义,批评不正义。你是不是同意这样做?

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苏:没有什么使我更高兴的了。还有什么题目是一个有头脑的人高兴去讲了又讲,听了又听的呢?

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①即关于正义和不正义的定义问题,也就是下面所说的,正义和不正义的“本质”。

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②即后面所说的对心灵的“影响”。

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格:好极了。那就先听我来谈刚才提出的第一点——正义的本质和起源。人们说:作不正义事是利,遭受不正义是害。

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遭受不正义所得的害超过干不正义所得的利。所以人们在彼此交往中既尝到过干不正义的甜头,又尝到过遭受不正义的苦头。两种味道都尝到了之后,那些不能专尝甜头不吃苦头的人,觉得最好大家成立契约:既不要得不正义之惠,也不要吃不正义之亏。打这时候起,他们中间才开始订法律立契约。

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他们把守法践约叫合法的、正义的。这就是正义的本质与起源。正义的本质就是最好与最坏的折衷——所谓最好,就是干了坏事而不受罚;所谓最坏,就是受了罪而没法报复。人们说,既然正义是两者之折衷,它之为大家所接受和赞成,就不是因为它本身真正善,而是因为这些人没有力量去干不正义,任何一个真正有力量作恶的人绝不会愿意和别人订什么契约,答应既不害人也不受害——除非他疯了。因此,苏格拉底啊,他们说,正义的本质和起源就是这样。

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说到第二点。那些做正义事的人并不是出于心甘情愿,而仅仅是因为没有本事作恶。这点再清楚也没有了。假定我们这样设想:眼前有两个人,一个正义,一个不正义,我们给他们各自随心所欲做事的权力,然后冷眼旁观,看看各人的欲望把他们引到哪里去?我们当场就能发现,正义的人也在那儿干不正义的事。人不为己,天诛地灭嘛!人都是在法律的强迫之下,才走到正义这条路上来的。我所讲的随心所欲,系指象吕底亚人古各斯的祖先所有的那样一种权力。据说他是一个牧羊人,在当时吕底亚的统治者手下当差。有一天暴风雨之后,接着又地震,在他放羊的地方,地壳裂开了,下有一道深渊。他虽然惊住了,但还是走了下去。故事是这样说的:他在那里面看到许多新奇的玩艺儿,最特别的是一匹空心的铜马,马身上还有小窗户。他偷眼一瞧,只见里面一具尸首,个头比一般人大,除了手上戴着一只金戒指,身上啥也没有。他把金戒指取下来就出来了。这些牧羊人有个规矩,每个月要开一次会,然后把羊群的情况向国王报告。他就戴着金戒指去开会了。他跟大伙儿坐在一起,谁知他碰巧把戒指上的宝石朝自己的手心一转。这一下,别人都看不见他了,都当他已经走了。

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他自己也莫名其妙,无意之间把宝石朝外一转,别人又看见他了。这以后他一再试验,看自己到底有没有这个隐身的本领。果然百试百灵,只要宝石朝里一转,别人就看不见他。朝外一转,就看得见他。他有了这个把握,就想方设法谋到一个职位,当上了国王的使臣。到了国王身边,他就勾引了王后,跟她同谋,杀掉了国王,夺取了王位。照这样来看,假定有两只这样的戒指,正义的人和不正义的人各戴一只,在这种情况下,可以想象,没有一个人能坚定不移,继续做正义的事,也不会有一个人能克制住不拿别人的财物,如果他能在市场里不用害怕,要什么就随便拿什么,能随意穿门越户,能随意调戏妇女,能随意杀人劫狱,总之能象全能的神一样,随心所欲行动的话,到这时候,两个人的行为就会一模一样。因此我们可以说,这是一个有力的证据,证明没有人把正义当成是对自己的好事,心甘情愿去实行,做正义事是勉强的。在任何场合之下,一个人只要能干坏事,他总会去干的。大家一目了然,从不正义那里比从正义那里个人能得到更多的利益。

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每个相信这点的人却能振振有词,说出一大套道理来。如果谁有了权而不为非作歹,不夺人钱财,那他就要被人当成天下第一号的傻瓜,虽然当着他的面人家还是称赞他——人们因为怕吃亏,老是这么互相欺骗着。这一点暂且说到这里。

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如果我们把最正义的生活跟最不正义的生活作一番对照,我们就能够对这两种生活作出正确的评价。怎样才能清楚地对照呢?这么办:我们不从不正义者身上减少不正义,也不从正义者身上减少正义,而让他们各行其事,各尽其能。

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首先,我们让不正义之人象个有专门技术的人,例如最好的舵手或最好的医生那样行动,在他的技术范围之内,他能辨别什么是可能的,什么是不可能的,取其可能而弃其不可能。即使偶尔出了差错,他也能补救。那就等着瞧吧!他会把坏事干得不漏一点马脚,谁也不能发觉。如果他被人抓住,我们就必须把他看作一个蹩脚的货色。不正义的最高境界就是嘴上仁义道德,肚子里男盗女娼。所以我们对一个完全不正义的人应该给他完全的不正义,一点不能打折扣;我们还要给坏事做绝的人最最正义的好名声;假使他出了破绽,也要给他补救的能力。如果他干的坏事遭到谴责,让他能鼓起如簧之舌,说服人家。如果需要动武,他有的是勇气和实力,也有的是财势和朋党。

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在这个不正义者的旁边,让我们按照理论树立一个正义者的形象:朴素正直,就象诗人埃斯库洛斯所说的“一个不是看上去好,而是真正好的人”。因此我们必须把他的这个“看上去”去掉。因为,如果大家把他看作正义的人,他就因此有名有利。在这种情况下,我们就搞不清楚他究竟是为正义而正义,还是为名利而正义了。所以我们必须排除他身上的一切表象,光剩下正义本身,来跟前面说过的那个假好人真坏人对立起来。让他不做坏事而有大逆不道之名,这样正义本身才可以受到考验。虽然国人皆曰可杀,他仍正义凛然,鞠躬殉道,死而后已;他甘冒天下之大不韪,坚持正义,终生不渝。

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这样让正义和不正义各趋极端,我们就好判别两者之中哪一种更幸福了。

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苏:老天爷保佑!我亲爱的格劳孔,你花了多大的努力塑造琢磨出这一对人象呀,它们简直象参加比赛的一对雕塑艺术品一样啦。

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格:我尽心力而为,总算弄出来了。我想,如果这是两者的本质,接下来讨论两种生活的前途就容易了。所以我必得接着往下讲。如果我说话粗野,苏格拉底,你可别以为是我在讲,你得以为那是颂扬不正义贬抑正义的人在讲。他们会这样说:

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正义的人在那种情况下,将受到拷打折磨,戴着镣铐,烧瞎眼睛,受尽各种痛苦,最后他将被钉在十字架上。死到临头他才体会到一个人不应该做真正义的人,而应该做一个假正义的人。埃斯库洛斯的诗句似乎更适用于不正义的人。人们说不正义的人倒真的是务求实际,不慕虚名的人——他不要做伪君子,而要做真实的人,他的心田肥沃而深厚;

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老谋深算从这里长出,

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精明主意生自这心头。①

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①见埃斯库洛斯悲剧《七将攻忒拜》574。

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他由于有正义之名,首先要做官,要统治国家;其次他要同他所看中的世家之女结婚,又要让子女同他所中意的任何世家联姻;他还想要同任何合适的人合伙经商,并且在所有这些事情中,捞取种种好处,因为他没有怕人家说他不正义的顾忌。人们认为,如果进行诉讼,不论公事私事,不正义者总能胜诉,他就这样长袖善舞,越来越富。他能使朋友得利,敌人受害。他祀奉诸神,排场体面,祭品丰盛。不论敬神待人,只要他愿意,总比正义的人搞得高明得多。这样神明理所当然对他要比对正义者多加照顾。所以人们会说,苏格拉底呀!诸神也罢,众人也罢,他们给不正义者安排的生活要比给正义者安排的好得多。

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〔苏:格劳孔说完了,我心里正想说几句话,但他的兄弟阿得曼托斯插了进来。〕阿:苏格拉底,当然你不会认为这个问题已经说透彻了吧!

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苏:还有什么要讲的吗?

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阿:最该讲的事偏偏还只字未提呢。

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苏:我明白了。常言道:“兄弟一条心!”他漏了什么没讲,你就帮他补上。虽然对我来说,他所讲的已经足够把我打倒在地,使我想要支援正义也爱莫能助了。

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阿:废话少说,听我继续讲下去。我们必须把人家赞扬正义批判不正义的观点统统理出来。据我看,这样才能把格劳孔的意思弄得更清楚。做父亲的告诉儿子,一切负有教育责任的人们都谆谆告诫:为人必须正义。但是他们的谆谆告诫也并不颂扬正义本身,而只颂扬来自正义的好名声。因为只要有了这个好名声,他就可以身居高位,通婚世族,得到刚才格劳孔所讲的一个不正义者从好名声中能获得的种种好处。关于好名声的问题,人们还讲了许多话。例如他们把人的好名声跟诸神联系起来,说诸神会把一大堆好东西赏赐给虔诚的人们。举诗人赫西俄德和荷马的话为例,前者说诸神使橡树为正义的人开花结实:

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树梢结橡子,树间蜜蜂鸣,

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树下有绵羊,羊群如白云。①

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①赫西俄德《工作与农时》232以下。

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他说正义者还有其他诸如此类的赏心乐事。荷马说的不约而同:

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英明君王,敬畏诸神,

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高举正义,五谷丰登,

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大地肥沃,果枝沉沉,

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海多鱼类,羊群繁殖。①

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①《奥德赛》ⅩⅨ109以下。

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默塞俄斯和他的儿子在诗歌中歌颂诸神赐福正义的人,说得更妙。他们说诸神引导正义的人们来到冥界,设筵款待,请他们斜倚长榻,头戴花冠,一觞一咏,以消永日。似乎美德最好的报酬,就是醉酒作乐而已。还有其他的人说,上苍对美德的恩赐荫及后代。他们说虔信诸神和信守誓言的人多子多孙,绵延百代。他们把渎神和不正义的人埋在阴间的泥土中,还强迫他们用篮取水:劳而无功;使不正义的人在世的时候,就得到恶名,遭受到格劳孔所列举的,当一个正义者被看成不正义者时所受的同样的惩罚。关于不正义之人,诗人所讲的只此而已,别无其他。关于对正义者与不正义者的赞扬和非难之论,就说这么多吧!

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此外,苏格拉底呀!请你再考虑诗人和其他的人关于正义和不正义的另外一种说法。他们大家异口同声反复指出节制和正义固然美,但是艰苦。纵欲和不正义则愉快,容易,他们说指责不正义为寡廉鲜耻,不过流俗之见一番空论罢了。他们说不正义通常比正义有利。他们庆贺有钱有势的坏人有福气,不论当众或私下里,心甘情愿尊敬这些人。他们对于穷人弱者,总是欺侮蔑视,虽然他们心里明白贫弱者比这些人要好得多。在这些事情当中,最叫人吃惊的是,他们对于诸神与美德的说法。他们说诸神显然给许多好人以不幸的遭遇和多灾多难的一生,而给许多坏人以种种的幸福。求乞祭司和江湖巫人,奔走富家之门,游说主人,要他们相信:如果他们或他们的祖先作了孽,用献祭和符咒的方法,他们可以得到诸神的赐福,用乐神的赛会能消灾赎罪;如果要伤害敌人,只要化一点小费,念几道符咒,读几篇咒文,就能驱神役鬼,为他们效力,伤害无论不正义者还是正义者。他们还引用诗篇为此作证,诗里描写了为恶的轻易和恶人的富足,名利多作恶,举步可登程,

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恶路且平坦,为善苦登攀。①

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①赫西俄德《工作与农时》287—289。

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以及从善者的路程遥远又多险阻。还有的人引用荷马诗来证明凡人诱惑诸神,因为荷马说过:

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众人获罪莫担心,逢年过节来祭神,

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香烟缭绕牺牲供,诸神开颜保太平。②

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②《伊利亚特》Ⅸ497以下。柏拉图引文与现行史诗有出入。

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他们发行一大堆默塞俄斯与俄尔甫斯的书籍。据他们说,默塞俄斯与俄尔甫斯是月神和文艺之神的后裔。他们用这些书里规定的仪式祭祀祓除,让国家和私人都相信,如果犯下了罪孽,可以用祭享和赛会为生者赎罪。可以用特有的仪式使死者在阴间得到赦免。谁要是轻忽祭祀享神,那就永世不得超生。

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亲爱的朋友苏格拉底呀!他们所讲的关于神和人共同关心的善恶的种种宏旨高论,对于听者,特别是对那些比较聪明,能够从道听途说中进行推理的年轻人,对他们的心灵会有什么影响呢?他们能从这些高论中得出结论,知道走什么样路,做什么样人,才能使自己一生过得最有意义吗?这种年轻人多半会用品达的问题来问他们自己:“是用堂堂正义,还是靠阴谋诡计来步步高升,安身立命,度过一生?”要做一个正义的人,除非我只是徒有正义之名,否则就是自找苦吃。反之,如果我并不正义,却已因挣得正义者之名,就能有天大的福气!既然智者们告诉我,“貌似”远胜“真是”,而且是幸福的关键。我何不全力以赴追求假象。我最好躲在灿烂庄严的门墙后面,带着最有智慧的阿尔赫洛霍斯所描写的狡猾贪婪的狐狸。有人说,干坏事而不被发觉很不容易。啊!普天之下,又有哪一件伟大的事情是容易的?无论如何,想要幸福只此一途。

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因为所有论证的结果都是指向这条道路。为了一切保密,我们拉宗派、搞集团;有辩论大师教我们讲话的艺术,向议会法庭作演说,硬逼软求,这样,我们可以尽得好处而不受惩罚。

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有人说,对于诸神,既不能骗,又不能逼。怎么不能?假定没有神,或者有神而神不关心人间的事情,那么做了坏事被神发觉也无所谓。假定有神,神又确实关心我们,那我们所知道的关于神的一切,也都是从故事和诗人们描述的神谱里来的。

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那里也同时告诉我们,祭祀、祷告、奉献祭品,就可以把诸神收买过来。对于诗人们的话,要么全信,要么全不信。如果我们信了,那我们就放手去干坏事,然后拿出一部分不义之财来设祭献神。如果我们是正义的,诸神当然不会惩罚我们,不过我们得拒绝不正义的利益。如果我们是不正义的,我们保住既得利益,犯罪以后向诸神祷告求情,最后还是安然无恙。

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有人说:不错,但是到来世,还是恶有恶报,报应在自己身上,或者在子孙身上。但是精明会算的先生们这样说:没关系,我们这里有灵验的特种仪式和一心赦罪的诸神,威名远扬的城邦都是这样宣布的。我们还有诸神之子,就是诗人和神的代言人,所有关于真理的消息都是这些智者透露给我们的。

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那么,还有什么理由让我们去选择正义,而舍弃极端的不正义呢?如果我们把正义只拿来装装门面,做出道貌岸然的样子,我们生前死后,对人对神就会左右逢源,无往而不利。

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这个道理,普通人和第一流的权威都是这么说的。根据上面说的这些,苏格拉底呀,怎么可能说服一个有聪明才智、有财富、有体力、有门第的人,叫他来尊重正义?这种人对于任何赞扬正义的说法,都只会嘲笑而已。照这么看,假如有人指出我们所说过的一切都是错的,假如有人真是心悦诚服地相信正义确是最善,那么他对于不正义者也会认为情有可原。他不会恼怒他们。因为他晓得,没有一个人真正心甘情愿实践正义的。除非那种生性刚正、嫉恶如仇,或者困学而知的人,才懂得为什么要存善去恶。不然就是因为怯懦、老迈或者其他缺点使他反对作恶——因为他实在没有力量作恶。这点再明白也没有了。这种人谁头一个掌权,谁就头一个尽量作恶,唯一的原因就是我跟我的朋友刚开始所讲的。我们对你说:“苏格拉底呀!这事说来也怪,你们自命为正义的歌颂者。可是,从古代载入史册的英雄起,一直到近代的普通人,没有一个人真正歌颂正义,谴责不正义,就是肯歌颂正义或谴责不正义,也不外乎是从名声、荣誉、利禄这些方面来说的。至于正义或不正义本身是什么?它们本身的力量何在?它们在人的心灵上,当神所不知,人所不见的时候,起什么作用?在诗歌里,或者私下谈话里,都没有人好好地描写过,没有人曾经指出过,不正义是心灵本身最大的丑恶,正义是最大的美德。要是一上来大家就这么说,从我们年轻时候起,就这样来说服我们,我们就用不着彼此间提防,每个人就都是自己最好的护卫者了。

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因为每个人都怕干坏事,怕在自己身上出现最大的丑恶。苏格拉底呀!关于正义和不正义,色拉叙马霍斯和其他的人毫无疑问是会说这些话的,甚至还要过头一点呢!这种说法,在我看来,其实是把正义和不正义的真实价值颠倒过来了。至于我个人,坦白地说,为了想听听你的反驳,我已经尽我所能,把问题说得清楚。你可别仅仅论证一下正义高于不正义就算了事,你一定得讲清楚,正义和不正义本身对它的所有者,有什么好处,有什么坏处。正如格劳孔所提出的,把两者的名丢掉。因为如果你不把双方真的名声去掉,而加上假的名声,我们就要说你所称赞的不是正义而是正义的外表。你所谴责的不是不正义,而是不正义的外表。你不过是劝不正义者不要让人发觉而已。我们就会认为你和色拉叙马霍斯的想法一致。正义是别人的好处,强者的利益,而不正义是对自己的利益,对弱者的祸害。你认为正义是至善之一,是世上最好的东西之一。那些所谓最好的东西,就是指不仅它们的结果好,尤其指它们本身好。比如视力、听力、智力、健康,以及其他德性,靠的是自己的本质而不是靠虚名,我要你赞扬的正义就是指这个——正义本身赐福于其所有者;不正义本身则贻祸于其所有者。尽管让别人去赞扬浮名实利吧。我可以从别人那里,但不能从你这里接受这种颂扬正义,谴责不正义的说法,接受这种赞美或嘲笑名誉、报酬的说法,除非你命令我这样做,因为你是毕生专心致志研究这个问题的人。我请你在辩论中不要仅仅证明正义高于不正义;你要证明二者本身各是什么?

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它们对于其所有者各起了什么广泛深入的作用,使得前者成其为善,后者成其为恶——不管神与人是否觉察。

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苏:〔我对于格劳孔和阿得曼托斯的天赋才能向来钦佩。

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不过我从来没有象今天听他们讲了这些话以后这样高兴。我说:〕贤昆仲不愧为名父之子,格劳孔的好朋友曾经写过一首诗,歌颂你们在麦加拉战役中的赫赫战功,那首诗的开头两句在我看来非常恰当。

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名门之子,父名“至善”,①

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难兄难弟,名不虚传。

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①阿里斯同是格劳孔和阿得曼托斯的父亲。“阿里斯同”希腊文原意是“最好”。

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你们既然不肯相信不正义比正义好,而同时又为不正义辩护得这么头头是道。这其间必有神助。我觉得你们实在不相信自己说的那一套,我是从你们的品格上判断出来的。要是单单听你们的辩证,我是会怀疑的。但是我越相信你们,我越不知道该怎么办是好。我不晓得怎么来帮你们。老实说,我确实没有这个能力。我对色拉叙马霍斯所说的一番话,我认为已经证明正义优于不正义了,可你们不肯接受。我真不知道怎么来拒绝给你们帮助。如果正义遭人诽谤,而我一息尚存有口能辩,却袖手旁观不上来帮助,这对我来说,恐怕是一种罪恶,是奇耻大辱。看起来,我挺身而起保卫正义才是上策。

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〔格劳孔和其余的人央求我不能撒手,无论如何要帮个忙,不要放弃这个辩论。他们央求我穷根究底弄清楚二者的本质究竟是什么,二者的真正利益又是什么?于是,我就所想到的说了一番:〕我们现在进行的这个探讨非比寻常,在我看来,需要有敏锐的目光。可是既然我们并不聪明,我想最好还是进行下面这种探讨。假定我们视力不好,人家要我们读远处写着的小字,正在这时候有人发现别处用大字写着同样的字,那我们可就交了好运了,我们就可以先读大字后读小字,再看看它们是不是一样。

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阿:说得不错,但是这跟探讨正义有什么相似之处?

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苏:我来告诉你:我想我们可以说,有个人的正义,也有整个城邦的正义。

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阿:当然。

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苏:好!一个城邦是不是比一个人大?

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阿:大得多!

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苏:那么也许在大的东西里面有较多的正义,也就更容易理解。如果你愿意的话,让我们先探讨在城邦里正义是什么,然后在个别人身上考察它,这叫由大见小。

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阿:这倒是个好主意。

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苏:如果我们能想象一个城邦的成长,我们也就能看到那里正义和不正义的成长,是不是?

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阿:可能是这样。

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苏:要是做到了这点,我们就有希望轻而易举地看到我们所要追寻的东西。

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阿:不错,希望很大。

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苏:那么,我们要不要着手进行?我觉得这件事非同小可,你可要仔细想想。

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阿:我们已经考虑过了。干吧!不要再犹豫了。

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苏:那么很好。在我看来,之所以要建立一个城邦,是因为我们每一个人不能单靠自己达到自足,我们需要许多东西。

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你们还能想到什么别的建立城邦的理由吗?

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阿:没有。

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苏:因此我们每个人为了各种需要,招来各种各样的人。

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由于需要许多东西,我们邀集许多人住在一起,作为伙伴和助手,这个公共住宅区,我们叫它作城邦。这样说对吗?

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阿:当然对。

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苏:那么一个人分一点东西给别的人,或者从别的人那里拿来一点东西,每个人却觉得这样有进有出对他自己有好处。

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阿:是的。

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苏:那就让我们从头设想,来建立一个城邦,看看一个城邦的创建人需要些什么。

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阿:好的。

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苏:首先,最重要的是粮食,有了它才能生存。

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阿:毫无疑问。

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苏:第二是住房,第三是衣服,以及其它等等。

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阿:理所当然。

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苏:接着要问的是:我们的城邦怎么才能充分供应这些东西?那里要不要有一个农夫、一个瓦匠、一个纺织工人?要不要再加一个鞋匠或者别的照料身体需要的人?

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苏:那么最小的城邦起码要有四到五个人。

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阿:显然是的。

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苏:接下来怎么样呢?是不是每一个成员要把各自的工作贡献给公众——我的意见是说,农夫要为四个人准备粮食,他要花四倍的时间和劳力准备粮食来跟其他的人共享呢?还是不管别人,只为他自己准备粮食——花四分之一的时间,生产自己的一份粮食,把其余四分之三的时间,一份花在造房子上,一份花在做衣服上,一份花在做鞋子上,免得同人家交换,各自为我,只顾自己的需要呢?

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阿:恐怕第一种办法便当,苏格拉底。

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苏:上天作证,这是一点也不奇怪的。你刚说这话,我就想到我们大家并不是生下来都一样的。各人性格不同,适合于不同的工作。你说是不是?

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苏:那么是一个人干几种手艺好呢,还是一个人单搞一种手艺好呢?

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阿:一人单搞一种手艺好。

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苏:其次,我认为有一点很清楚——一个人不论干什么事,失掉恰当的时节有利的时机就会全功尽弃。

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阿:不错,这点很清楚。

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苏:我想,一件工作不是等工人有空了再慢慢去搞的,相反,是工人应该全心全意当作主要任务来抓的,是不能随随便便,马虎从事的。

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阿:必须这样。

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苏:这样,只要每个人在恰当的时候干适合他性格的工作,放弃其它的事情,专搞一行,这样就会每种东西都生产得又多又好。

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阿:对极了。

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苏:那么,阿得曼托斯,我们就需要更多的公民,要超过四个人来供应我们所说的一切了。农夫似乎造不出他用的犁头——如果要的是一张好犁的话,也不能制造他的锄头和其它耕田的工具。建筑工人也是这样,他也需要许多其他的人。织布工人、鞋匠都不例外。

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苏:那么木匠铁匠和许多别的匠人就要成为我们小城邦的成员,小城邦就更扩大起来了。

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苏:但这样也不能算很大。就说我们再加上放牛的、牧羊的和养其它牲口的人吧。这样可使农夫有牛拉犁,建筑工人和农夫有牲口替他们运输东西,纺织工人和鞋匠有羊毛和皮革可用。

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阿:假定这些都有了,这个城邦这不能算很小啦!

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苏:还有一点,把城邦建立在不需要进口货物的地方,这在实际上是不可能的。

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阿:确实不可能。

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苏:那么它就还得有人到别的城邦去,进口所需要的东西呀。

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苏:但是有一点,如果我们派出的人空手而去,不带去人家所需要的东西换人家所能给的东西,那么,使者回来不也会两手空空吗?

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阿:我看会是这样的。

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苏:那么他们就必需不仅为本城邦生产足够的东西,还得生产在质量、数量方面,能满足为他们提供东西的外邦人需要的东西。

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阿:应当如此。

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苏:所以我们的城邦需要更多的农夫和更多其他的技工了。

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苏:我想,还需要别种助手做进出口的买卖,这就是商人。是不是?

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苏:因此,我们还需要商人。

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苏:如果这个生意要到海外进行,那就还得需要另外许多懂得海外贸易的人。

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阿:确实还需要许多别的人。

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苏:在城邦内部,我们是如何彼此交换各人所制造的东西呢?须知这种交换产品正是我们合作建立城邦的本来目的呀。

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阿:交换显然是用买和卖的办法。

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苏:于是我们就会有市场,有货币作为货物交换的媒介。

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苏:如果一个农夫或者随便哪个匠人拿着他的产品上市场去,可是想换取他产品的人还没到,那么他不是就得闲坐在农场上耽误他自己的工作吗?

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阿:不会的。市场那里有人看到这种情况,就会出来专门为他服务的。在管理有方的城邦里,这是些身体最弱不能干其他工作的人干的。他们就等在市场上,拿钱来跟愿意卖的人换货,再拿货来跟愿意买的人换钱。

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苏:在我们的城邦里,这种需要产生了一批店老板。那些常住在市场上做买卖的人,我们叫他店老板,或者小商人。那些往来于城邦之间做买卖的人,我们称之为大商人。是不是?

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苏:此外我认为还有别的为我们服务的人,这种人有足够的力气可以干体力劳动,但在智力方面就没有什么长处值得当我们的伙伴。这些人按一定的价格出卖劳力,这个价格就叫工资。因此毫无疑问,他们是靠工资为生的人。不知你意下如何?

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阿:我同意。

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苏:那么靠工资为生的人,似乎也补充到我们城邦里来了。

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苏:阿得曼托斯,那么我们的城邦已经成长完备了吗?

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阿:也许。

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苏:那么在我们城邦里,何处可以找到正义和不正义呢?

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在我们上面所列述的那些种人里,正义和不正义是被哪些人带进城邦来的呢?

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阿:我可说不清,苏格拉底!要么那是因为各种人彼此都有某种需要。

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苏:也许你的提法很对。我们必须考虑这个问题,不能退缩。首先,让我们考虑一下在作好上面种种安排以后,人们的生活方式将会是什么样子。他们不要烧饭,酿酒,缝衣,制鞋吗?他们还要造屋,一般说,夏天干活赤膊光脚,冬天穿很多衣服,着很厚的鞋子。他们用大麦片,小麦粉当粮食,煮粥,做成糕点,烙成薄饼,放在苇叶或者干净的叶子上。他们斜躺在铺着紫杉和桃金娘叶子的小床上,跟儿女们欢宴畅饮,头戴花冠,高唱颂神的赞美诗。满门团聚,其乐融融,一家数口儿女不多,免受贫困与战争。

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〔这时候格劳孔插嘴说:〕格:不要别的东西了吗?好象宴会上连一点调味品也不要了。

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苏:真的,我把这点给忘了。他们会有调味品的,当然要有盐、橄榄、乳酪,还有乡间常煮吃的洋葱、蔬菜。我们还会给他们甜食——无花果、鹰嘴豆、豌豆,还会让他们在火上烤爱神木果、橡子吃,适可而止地喝上一点酒,就这样让他们身体健康,太太平平度过一生,然后无病而终,并把这种同样的生活再传给他们的下一代。

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格:如果你是在建立一个猪的城邦,除了上面这些东西而外,你还给点什么别的饲料吗?

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苏:格劳孔,你还想要什么?

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格:还要一些能使生活稍微舒服一点的东西。我想,他们要有让人斜靠的睡椅,免得太累,还要有几张餐桌几个碟子和甜食等等。就象现在大家都有的那些。

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苏:哦,我明白了。看来我们正在考虑的不单是一个城邦的成长,而且是一个繁华城邦的成长。这倒不见得是个坏主意。我们观察这种城邦,也许就可以看到在一个国家里,正义和不正义是怎么成长起来的。我认为真正的国家,乃是我们前面所讲述的那样——可以叫做健康的国家。如果你想研究一个发高烧的城邦也未始不可。不少人看来对刚才这个菜单或者这个生活方式并不满意。睡椅毕竟是要添置的,还要桌子和其它的家俱,还要调味品、香料、香水、歌妓、蜜饯、糕饼——诸如此类的东西。我们开头所讲的那些必需的东西:房屋、衣服、鞋子,是不够了;我们还得花时间去绘画、刺绣,想方设法寻找金子、象牙以及种种诸如此类的装饰品,是不是?

153
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格:是的。

154
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苏:那么我们需要不需要再扩大这个城邦呢?因为那个健康的城邦还是不够,我们势必要使它再扩大一点,加进许多必要的人和物——例如各种猎人、模仿形象与色彩的艺术家,一大群搞音乐的,诗人和一大群助手——朗诵者、演员、合唱队、舞蹈队、管理员以及制造各种家具和用品的人,特别是做妇女装饰品的那些人,我们需要更多的佣人。你以为我们不需要家庭教师、奶妈、保姆、理发师、厨师吗?我们还需要牧猪奴。在我们早期的城邦里,这些人一概没有,因为用不着他们。不过,在目前这个城邦里,就有这个需要了。我们还需要大量别的牲畜作为肉食品。你说对不对?

155
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格:对!

156
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苏:在这样的生活方式里,我们不是比以前更需要医生吗?

157
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格:是更需要。

158
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苏:说起土地上的农产品来,它们以前足够供应那时所有的居民,现在不够了,太少了。你说对不对?

159
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苏:如果我们想要有足够大的耕地和牧场,我们势必要从邻居那儿抢一块来;而邻居如果不以所得为满足,也无限制地追求财富的话,他们势必也要夺一块我们的土地。

160
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格:必然如此。苏格拉底。

161
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苏:格劳孔呀!下一步,我们就要走向战争了,否则你说怎么办?

162
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格:就是这样,要战争了。

163
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苏:我们且不说战争造成好的或坏的结果,只说现在我们已经找到了战争的起源。战争使城邦在公私两方面遭到极大的灾难。

164
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格:当然。

165
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苏:那么我们需要一个更大的城邦,不是稍微大一点,而是要加上全部军队那么大,才可以抵抗和驱逐入侵之敌,保卫我们所列举的那些人民的生命和我们所有的一切财产。

166
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格:为什么?难道为了自己,那么些人还不够吗?

167
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苏:不够。想必你还记得,在创造城邦的时候,我们曾经一致说过,一个人不可能擅长许多种技艺的。

168
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格:不错。

169
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苏:那么好,军队打仗不是一种技艺吗?

170
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格:肯定是一种技艺。

171
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苏:那么我们应该注意做鞋的技艺,而不应该注意打仗的技艺吗?

172
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格:不,不!

173
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苏:为了把大家的鞋子做好,我们不让鞋匠去当农夫,或织工,或瓦工。同样,我们选拔其他的人,按其天赋安排职业,弃其所短,用其所长,让他们集中毕生精力专搞一门,精益求精,不失时机。那么,对于军事能不重视吗?还是说,军事太容易了,连农夫鞋匠和干任何别的行当的人都可以带兵打仗?就说是下棋掷骰子吧,如果只当作消遣,不从小就练习的话,也是断不能精于此道的。难道,在重武装战争或者其它类型的战争中,你拿起盾牌,或者其它兵器一天之内就能成为胜任作战的战士吗?须知,没有一种工具是拿到手就能使人成为有技术的工人或者斗士的,如果他不懂得怎么用工具,没有认真练习过的话。

174
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格:这话不错,不然工具本身就成了无价之宝了。

175
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苏:那么,如果说护卫者的工作是最重大的,他就需要有比别种人更多的空闲,需要有最多的知识和最多的训练。

176
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格:我也这么想。

177
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苏:不是还需要有适合干这一行的天赋吗?

178
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苏:看来,尽可能地挑选那些有这种天赋的人来守护这个城邦乃是我们的责任。

179
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格:那确是我们的责任。

180
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苏:天啊!这个担子可不轻,我们要尽心尽力而为之,不可退缩。

181
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格:对,决不可退缩。

182
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苏:你觉得一条养得好的警犬和一个养得好的卫士,①从保卫工作来说,两者的天赋才能有什么区别吗?

183
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①希腊文“警犬”σGH′Aαξ和“护卫者”“卫士”φH′Aαξ是谐音词。

184
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格:你究竟指的什么意思?

185
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苏:我的意思是说,两者都应该感觉敏锐,对觉察到的敌人要追得快,如果需要一决雌雄的话,要能斗得凶。

186
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格:是的,这些品质他们都需要。

187
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苏:如果要斗得胜的话,还必须勇敢。

188
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苏:不论是马,是狗,或其它动物,要不是生气勃勃,它们能变得勇敢吗?你有没有注意到,昂扬的精神意气,是何等不可抗拒不可战胜吗?只要有了它,就可以无所畏惧,所向无敌吗?

189
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格:是的,我注意到了。

190
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苏:那么,护卫者在身体方面应该有什么品质,这是很清楚的。

191
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苏:在心灵上他们应该意气奋发,这也是很明白清楚的。

192
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格:也是的。

193
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苏:格劳孔呀!如果他们的天赋品质是这样的,那他们怎么能避免彼此之间发生冲突,或者跟其他公民发生冲突呢?

194
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格:天啊!的确不容易避免。

195
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苏:他们还应该对自己人温和,对敌人凶狠。否则,用不着敌人来消灭,他们自己就先消灭自己了。

196
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格:真的。

197
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苏:那我们该怎么办?我们上哪里去找一种既温和,又刚烈的人?这两种性格是相反的呀。

198
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格:显然是相反的。

199
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苏:但要是两者缺一,他就永远成不了一个好的护卫者了。看来,二者不能得兼,因此,一个好的护卫者就也是不可能有的了。

200
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格:看来是不可能。

201
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苏:我给闹糊涂了。不过把刚才说的重新考虑一下,我觉得我们的糊涂是咎有应得,因为我们把自己所树立的相反典型给忘掉了。

202
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格:怎么回事?

203
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苏:我们没有注意到,我们原先认为不能同时具有相反的两种禀赋,现在看来毕竟还是有的。

204
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格:有?在哪儿?

205
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苏:可以在别的动物身上找到,特别是在我们拿来跟护卫者比拟的那种动物身上可以找到。我想你总知道喂得好的狗吧。它的脾气总是对熟人非常温和,对陌生人却恰恰相反。

206
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格:是的,我知道。

207
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苏:那么,事情是可能的了。我们找这样一种护卫者并不违反事物的天性。

208
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格:看来并不违反。

209
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苏:你是不是认为我们的护卫者,除了秉性刚烈之外,他的性格中还需要有对智慧的爱好,才能成其为护卫者?

210
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格:怎么需要这个的?我不明白你的意思。

211
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苏:在狗身上你也能看到这个①。兽类能这样,真值得惊奇。

212
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①指:对智慧的爱好。照希腊文“哲学家”一词,意即“爱好智慧的人”。

213
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格:“这个”是什么?

214
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苏:狗一看见陌生人就怒吠——虽然这个人并没打它;当它看见熟人,就摇尾欢迎——虽然这个人并没对它表示什么好意。这种事情,你看了从来没有觉得奇怪吗?

215
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格:过去我从来没注意这种事情。不过,狗的行动确实是这样的,这是一目了然的。

216
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苏:但那的确是它天性中的一种精细之处,是一种对智慧有真正爱好的表现。

217
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格:请问你是根据什么这样想的?

218
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苏:我这样想的根据是:狗完全凭认识与否区别敌友——

219
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不认识的是敌,认识的是友。一个动物能以知和不知辨别敌友同异,你怎么能说它不爱学习呢?

220
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格:当然不能。

221
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苏:你承认,爱学习和爱智慧是一回事吗?

222
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格:是一回事。

223
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苏:那么,在人类我们也可以有把握地这样说:如果他对自己人温和,他一定是一个天性爱学习和爱智慧的人。不是吗?

224
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格:让我们假定如此吧。

225
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苏:那么,我们可以在一个真正善的城邦护卫者的天性里把爱好智慧和刚烈、敏捷、有力这些品质结合起来了。

226
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格:毫无疑问可以这样。

227
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苏:那么,护卫者的天性基础①大概就是这样了。但是,我们的护卫者该怎样接受训练接受教育呢?我们研讨这个问题是不是可以帮助我们弄清楚整个探讨的目标呢——正义和不正义在城邦中是怎样产生的?我们要使我们的讨论既充分又不拖得太长,令人生厌。

228
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①作为后天接受教育的基础。

229
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阿(格劳孔的兄弟):是的。我希望这个探讨有助于我们一步步接近我们的目标。

230
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苏:那么,亲爱的阿得曼托斯,我们一定不要放弃这个讨论,就是长了一点,也要耐心。

231
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阿:对!一定不放弃。

232
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苏:那么,让我们来讨论怎么教育这些护卫者的问题吧。

233
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我们不妨象讲故事那样从容不迫地来谈。

234
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阿:我们是该这样做。

235
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苏:那么,这个教育究竟是什么呢?似乎确实很难找到比我们早已发现的那种教育更好的了。这种教育就是用体操来训练身体,用音乐①来陶冶心灵。

236
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①古代希腊重要的文化生活是听民间艺人弹着竖琴演说史诗故事。故“音乐”一词包括音乐、文学等义,相当现在的“文化”一词。关于音乐的讨论一直延伸到第三卷。(《理想国》象现在这样分为十卷是柏拉图数世纪后的事情。)

237
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苏:我们开始教育,要不要先教音乐后教体操?

238
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苏:你把故事包括在音乐里,对吗?

239
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阿:对。

240
-

苏:故事有两种,一种是真的,一种是假的,是吧?

241
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苏:我们在教育中应该两种都用,先用假的,是吗?

242
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阿:我不理解你的意思。

243
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苏:你不懂吗?我们对儿童先讲故事——故事从整体看是假的,但是其中也有真实。在教体操之前,我们先用故事教育孩子们。

244
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阿:这是真的。

245
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苏:这就是我所说的,在教体操之前先教音乐的意思。

246
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阿:非常正确。

247
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苏:你知道,凡事开头最重要。特别是生物。在幼小柔嫩的阶段,最容易接受陶冶,你要把它塑成什么型式,就能塑成什么型式。

248
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阿:一点不错。

249
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苏:那么,我们应不应该放任地让儿童听不相干的人讲不相干的故事,让他们的心灵接受许多我们认为他们在成年之后不应该有的那些见解呢?

250
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阿:绝对不应该。

251
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苏:那么看来,我们首先要审查故事的编者,接受他们编得好的故事,而拒绝那些编得坏的故事。我们鼓励母亲和保姆给孩子们讲那些已经审定的故事,用这些故事铸造他们的心灵,比用手去塑造他们的身体①还要仔细。他们现在所讲的故事大多数我们必须抛弃。

252
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①当时托儿所里采用的一种按摩推拿之类的保育方法。

253
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阿:你指的哪一类故事?

254
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苏:故事也能大中见小,因为我想,故事不论大小,类型总是一样的,影响也总是一样的,你看是不是?

255
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阿:是的,但是我不知道所谓大的故事是指的哪些?

256
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苏:指赫西俄德和荷马以及其他诗人所讲的那些故事。须知,我们曾经听讲过,现在还在听讲着他们所编的那些假故事。

257
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阿:你指的哪一类故事?这里面你发现了什么毛病?

258
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苏:首先必须痛加谴责的,是丑恶的假故事。

259
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阿:这指什么?

260
-

苏:一个人没有能用言词描绘出诸神与英雄的真正本性来,就等于一个画家没有画出他所要画的对象来一样。

261
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阿:这些是应该谴责的。但是,有什么例子可以拿出来说明问题的?

262
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苏:首先,最荒唐莫过于把最伟大的神描写得丑恶不堪。

263
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如赫西俄德描述的乌拉诺斯的行为,以及克罗诺斯对他的报复行为①,还有描述克罗诺斯的所作所为和他的儿子对他的行为,这些故事都属此类。即使这些事是真的,我认为也不应该随便讲给天真单纯的年轻人听。这些故事最好闭口不谈。如果非讲不可的话,也只能许可极少数人听,并须秘密宣誓,先行献牲,然后听讲,而且献的牲还不是一只猪,而是一种难以弄到的庞然大物。为的是使能听到这种故事的人尽可能的少。

264
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①赫西俄德《神谱》154,459。

265
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阿:啊!这种故事真是难说。

266
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苏:阿得曼托斯呀!在我们城邦里不应该多讲这类故事。

267
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一个年轻人不应该听了故事得到这样一种想法:对一个大逆不道,甚至想尽方法来严惩犯了错误的父亲的人也不要大惊小怪,因为他不过是仿效了最伟大的头号天神的做法而已。

268
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阿:天哪!我个人认为这种事情是不应该讲的。

269
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苏:决不该让年轻人听到诸神之间明争暗斗的事情(因为这不是真的)。如果我们希望将来的保卫者,把彼此勾心斗角、耍弄阴谋诡计当作奇耻大辱的话。我们更不应该把诸神或巨人之间的争斗,把诸神与英雄们对亲友的种种怨仇作为故事和刺绣的题材。如果我们能使年轻人相信城邦的公民之间从来没有任何争执——如果有的话,便是犯罪——老爷爷、老奶奶应该对孩子们从小就这样说,等他们长大一点还这样说,我们还必须强迫诗人按照这个意思去写作。关于赫拉如何被儿子绑了起来以及赫淮斯托斯见母亲挨打,他去援救的时候,如何被他的父亲从天上摔到地下的话①,还有荷马所描述的诸神间的战争等等,作为寓言来讲也罢,不作为寓言来讲也罢,无论如何不该让它们混进我们城邦里来。因为年轻人分辨不出什么是寓言,什么不是寓言。先入为主,早年接受的见解总是根深蒂固不容易更改的。因此我们要特别注意,为了培养美德,儿童们最初听到的应该是最优美高尚的故事。

270
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①《伊利亚特》Ⅰ586以下。

271
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阿:是的,很有道理。但是如果人家要我们明确说出这些故事指的哪些?我们该举出哪些来呢?

272
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苏:我亲爱的阿得曼托斯啊!你我都不是作为诗人而是作为城邦的缔造者在这里发言的。缔造者应当知道,诗人应该按照什么路子写作他们的故事,不许他写出不合规范的东西,但不要求自己动手写作。

273
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阿:很对。但,就是这个东西——故事里描写诸神的正确的路子或标准应该是什么样的呢?

274
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苏:大致是这样的:应该写出神之所以为神,即神的本质来。无论在史诗、抒情诗,或悲剧诗里,都应该这样描写。

275
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阿:是的,应该这样描写。

276
-

苏:神不肯定是实在善的吗?故事不应该永远把他们描写成善的吗?

277
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阿:当然应该。

278
-

苏:其次,没有任何善的东西是有害的,是吧?

279
-

阿:我想是的。

280
-

苏:无害的东西会干什么坏事吗?

281
-

阿:啊,不会的。

282
-

苏:不干坏事的东西会作恶吗?

283
-

阿:绝对不会。

284
-

苏:不作恶的东西会成为任何恶的原因吗?

285
-

阿:那怎么会呢?

286
-

苏:好,那么善的东西是有益的?

287
-

苏:因此是好事的原因吗?

288
-

苏:因此,善者并不是一切事物的原因,只是好的,事物的原因,不是坏的事物的原因。

289
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阿:完全是这样。

290
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苏:因此,神既然是善者,它也就不会是一切事物的原因——象许多人所说的那样。对人类来说,神只是少数几种事物的原因,而不是多数事物的原因。我们人世上好的事物比坏的事物少得多,而好事物的原因只能是神。至于坏事物的原因,我们必须到别处去找,不能在神那儿找。

291
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阿:你说的话,在我看来再正确不过了。

292
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苏:那么我们就不能接受荷马或其他诗人关于诸神的那种错误说法了。例如荷马在下面的诗里说:①

293
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①《伊利亚特》ⅩⅩⅣ527—532。这里引文与现行史诗原文略有出入。

294
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宙斯大堂上,并立两铜壶。

295
-

壶中盛命运,吉凶各悬殊。

296
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宙斯混吉凶,随意赐凡夫。

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当宙斯把混合的命运赐给哪个人,那个人就——

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时而遭灾难,时而得幸福。

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当宙斯不把吉凶相混,单赐坏运给一个人时,就——

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饥饿逼其人,飘泊无尽途。

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我们也不要去相信那种宙斯支配命运的说法:

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祸福变万端,宙斯实主之。

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如果有人说,潘德罗斯违背誓言①,破坏停战,是由于雅典娜和宙斯的怂恿,我决不能同意。我们也不能同意诸神之间的争执和分裂是由于宙斯和泰米斯②作弄的说法。我们也不能让年轻人听到象埃斯库洛斯所说的③:

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①《伊利亚特》Ⅳ69以下。

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②希腊神话中代表法律的女神。

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③埃斯库洛斯,轶诗160。

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天欲毁巨室,降灾群氓间。

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如果诗人们描写尼俄珀的悲痛——埃斯库洛斯曾用抑扬格诗描写过——或者描写佩洛匹达的故事、特洛亚战争的事绩,以及别的传说,我们一定要禁止他们把这些痛苦说成是神的意旨。如果要这么说,一定要他们举出这样说的理由,象我们正在努力寻找的一样——他们应该宣称神做了一件合乎正义的好事,使那些人从惩罚中得到益处。我们无论如何不能让诗人把被惩罚者的生活形容得悲惨,说是神要他们这样的。

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但是我们可以让诗人这样说:坏人日子难过,因为他们该受惩罚。神是为了要他们好,才惩罚他们的。假使有人说,神虽然本身是善的,可是却产生了恶。对于这种谎言,必须迎头痛击。假使这个城邦要统治得好的话,更不应该让任何人,不论他是老是少,听到这种故事(不论故事是有韵的还是没有韵的)。讲这种话是渎神的,对我们有害的,并且理论上是自相矛盾的。

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阿:我跟你一道投票赞成这条法律。我很喜欢它。

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苏:很好。这将成为我们关于诸神的法律之一,若干标准之一。故事要在这个标准下说,诗要在这个标准下写——神是善的原因,而不是一切事物之因。

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阿:这样说算是说到家了。

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苏:那么,其次,你认为神是一个魔术师吗?他能按自己的意图在不同的时间显示出不同的形相来吗?他能有时变换外貌,乔装打扮惑世欺人吗?还是说,神是单一的,始终不失他本相的呢?

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阿:我一下子答不上来。

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苏:那么好好想想吧。任何事物一离开它的本相,它不就要(或被自己或被其它事物)改变吗?

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阿:这是必然的。

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苏:事物处于最好的状况下,最不容易被别的事物所改变或影响,例如,身体之受饮食、劳累的影响,植物之受阳光、风、雨等等的影响——最健康、最强壮者、最不容易被改变。不是吗?

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阿:怎么不是呢?

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苏:心灵不也是这样的吗?最勇敢、最智慧的心灵最不容易被任何外界的影响所干扰或改变。

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苏:根据类推,那些制成的东西也肯定是这样的了。——

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家具、房屋、衣服,如果做得很好很牢,也最不容易受时间或其它因素的影响。

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阿:的确是这样。

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苏:那么万事万物都是这样的了。——任何事物处于最好状况之下,(不管是天然的状况最好,还是人为的状况最好,或者两种状况都最好),是最不容易被别的东西所改变的。

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阿:看来是这样。

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苏:神和一切属于神的事物,无论如何都肯定是处于不能再好的状态下。

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苏:因此看来,神是绝对不能有许多形相的。

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阿:确实不可能的。

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苏:但是,神能变形,即·自·己改变自己吗?

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阿:如果他能·被·改·变,显然是能自己改变自己的。

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苏:那么他把自己变美变好呢,还是变丑变坏呢?

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阿:如果变,他一定是变坏。因为我们定然不能说神在美和善方面是有欠缺的。

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苏:你说得对极了。如果这样尽善尽美,阿得曼托斯,你想想看,无论是哪一个神或哪一个人,他会自愿把自己变坏一点点吗?

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阿:不可能的。

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苏:那么,一个神想要改变他自己,看来是连这样一种愿望也不可能有的了。看来还是:神和人都尽善尽美,永远停留在自己单一的既定形式之中。

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阿:我认为这是一个必然的结论。

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苏:那么,我的高明的朋友啊!不许任何诗人这样对我们说:

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诸神乔装来异乡,

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变形幻影访城邦。①

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也不许任何人讲关于普罗图斯和塞蒂斯的谎话,也不许在任何悲剧和诗篇里,把赫拉带来,扮作尼姑,为阿尔戈斯的伊纳霍斯河的赐予生命的孩子们挨门募化,我们不需要诸如此类的谎言。做母亲的也不要被这些谎言所欺骗,对孩子们讲那些荒唐故事,说什么诸神在夜里游荡,假装成远方来的异客。我们不让她们亵渎神明,还把孩子吓得胆战心惊,变成懦夫。

340
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①《奥德赛》ⅩⅦ485—486。

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阿:决不许这样。

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苏:既然诸神是不能改变的,难道他们能给我们幻象,让我们看到他们在光怪陆离的形式之中吗?

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阿:也许如此。

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苏:什么?难道神明会愿意说谎欺骗,在言行上对我们玩弄玄虚吗?

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阿:我不知道。

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苏:你难道不懂:真的谎言——如果这话能成立①——是所有的神和人都憎恶的吗?

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①“真”和“假”(谎言)是对立的。

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阿:你说的是什么意思?

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苏:我的意思是说:谎言乃是一种不论谁在自身最重要的部分①——在最重要的利害关系上——都最不愿意接受的东西,是不论谁都最害怕它存在在那里的。

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①在心灵上。

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阿:我还是不懂。

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苏:这是因为你以为我的话有什么重要含意。其实,我的意思只是:上当受骗,对真相一无所知,在自己心灵上一直保留着假象——这是任何人都最不愿意最深恶痛绝的。

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阿:确实如此。

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苏:但是,受骗者把心灵上的无知说成是非常真的谎言(如我刚才所做的)肯定是完全正确的。因为嘴上讲的谎言只不过是心灵状态的一个摹本,是派生的,仅仅是形象而不是欺骗本身和真的谎言。对吗?

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阿:很对。

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苏:那么,真的谎言是不论神还是人都深恶痛绝的。

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阿:我也这么认为了。

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苏:不过,语言上的谎言怎么样?什么时候可以用,对谁可用,所以人家对它才不讨厌的?对敌人不是可用吗?在我们称之为朋友的那些人中间,当他们有人得了疯病,或者胡闹,要做坏事,谎言作为一种药物不也变得有用了,可以用来防止他们作恶吗?在我们刚才的讨论中所提到的故事里,我们尽量以假乱真,是由于我们不知道古代事情的真相,要利用假的传说达到训导的目的。

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阿:当然要这样。

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苏:那么在什么情况下,谎言能对神有用?会不会因为他们也不知道古代的事情,因此要把假的弄得象真的一样呢?

361
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阿:啊,这是一个荒唐的想法。

362
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苏:那么,神之间没有一个说假话的诗人吧?

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阿:我想不会有。

364
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苏:那么他会因为害怕敌人而说假话吗?

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苏:会因为朋友的疯狂和胡闹而说假话吗?

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阿:不会,神是没有疯狂和胡闹的朋友的。

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苏:那么,神不存在说谎的动机。

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阿:不存在。

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苏:因此,有一切理由说,心灵和神性都和虚伪无缘。

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苏:因此,神在言行方面都是单一的、真实的,他是不会改变自己,也不会白日送兆,夜间入梦,玩这些把戏来欺骗世人的。

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阿:听你讲了以后,我自己也这样认为。

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苏:那么你同意不同意这第二个标准:讲故事、写诗歌谈到神的时候,应当不把他们描写成随时变形的魔术师,在言行方面,他们不是那种用谎言引导我们走上歧途去的角色?

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苏:那么,在荷马的作品里,虽然许多东西值得我们赞美,可是有一件事是我们不能称赞的,这就是宙斯托梦给阿加门农的说法①;我们也不能赞美埃斯库洛斯的一段诗,他说,塞蒂斯②告诉大家,在伊结婚时,阿波罗曾唱过如下的歌:

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①《伊利亚特》Ⅱ,1—34。

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②埃斯库洛斯,残诗350。

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多福多寿,子孙昌盛,

377
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敬畏命运,大亨以正。

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当众宣告,胜利功成。

379
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她曾对大家说:

380
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出于阿波罗之神口,预言谆谆。

381
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不欺不诈,信以为真。

382
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孰知杀吾儿者,竟是此神。

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神而若此,天道宁论。

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任何诗人说这种话诽谤诸神,我们都将生气,不让他们组织歌舞队演出,也不让学校教师用他们的诗来教育年轻人,如果要使未来的城邦护卫者在人性许可的范围内,成为敬畏神明的人的话。

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阿:无论如何要这样。我同意你这两个标准,我愿意把它们当作法律。

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[p1]With these words I was thinking that I had made an end of the discussion; but the end, in truth, proved to be only a beginning. For Glaucon, who is always the most pugnacious of men, was dissatisfied at Thrasymachus’ retirement; he wanted to have the battle out. So he said to me:

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[p2]Socrates, do you wish really to persuade us, or only to seem to have persuaded us, that to be just is always better than to be unjust?

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I should wish really to persuade you, I replied, if I could.

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Then you certainly have not succeeded. Let me ask you now:—How would you arrange goods—are there not some which we welcome for their own sakes, and independently of their consequences, as, for example, harmless pleasures and enjoyments, which delight us at the time, although nothing follows from them?

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I agree in thinking that there is such a class, I replied.

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Is there not also a second class of goods, such as knowledge, sight, health, which are desirable not only in themselves, but also for their results?

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Certainly, I said.

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And would you not recognize a third class, such as gymnastic, and the care of the sick, and the physician's art; also the various ways of money-making—these do us good but we regard them as disagreeable; and no one would choose them for their own sakes, but only for the sake of some reward or result which flows from them?

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There is, I said, this third class also. But why do you ask?

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Because I want to know in which of the three classes you would place justice?

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In the highest class, I replied,—among those goods which he who would be happy desires both for their own sake and for the sake of their results.

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Then the many are of another mind; they think that justice is to be reckoned in the troublesome class, among goods which are to be pursued for the sake of rewards and of reputation, but in themselves are disagreeable and rather to be avoided.

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I know, I said, that this is their manner of thinking, and that this was the thesis which Thrasymachus was maintaining just now, when he censured justice and praised injustice. But I am too stupid to be convinced by him.

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I wish, he said, that you would hear me as well as him, and then I shall see whether you and I agree. For Thrasymachus seems to me, like a snake, to have been charmed by your voice sooner than he ought to have been; but to my mind the nature of justice and injustice have not yet been made clear. Setting aside their rewards and results, I want to know what they are in themselves, and how they inwardly work in the soul. If you, please, then, I will revive the argument of Thrasymachus. And first I will speak of the nature and origin of justice according to the common view of them. Secondly, I will show that all men who practise justice do so against their will, of necessity, but not as a good. And thirdly, I will argue that there is reason in this view, for the life of the unjust is after all better far than the life of the just—if what they say is true, Socrates, since I myself am not of their opinion. But still I acknowledge that I am perplexed when I hear the voices of Thrasymachus and myriads of others dinning in my ears; and, on the other hand, I have never yet heard the superiority of justice to injustice maintained by any one in a satisfactory way. I want to hear justice praised in respect of itself; then I shall be satisfied, and you are the person from whom I think that I am most likely to hear this; and therefore I will praise the unjust life to the utmost of my power, and my manner of speaking will indicate the manner in which I desire to hear you too praising justice and censuring injustice. Will you say whether you approve of my proposal?

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Indeed I do; nor can I imagine any theme about which a man of sense would oftener wish to converse.

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I am delighted, he replied, to hear you say so, and shall begin by speaking, as I proposed, of the nature and origin of justice.

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They say that to do injustice is, by nature, good; to suffer injustice, evil; but that the evil is greater than the good. And so when men have both done and suffered injustice and have had experience of both, not being able to avoid the one and obtain the other, they think that they had better agree among themselves to have neither; hence there arise laws and mutual covenants; and that which is ordained by law is termed by them lawful and just. This they affirm to be the origin and nature of justice;—it is a mean or compromise, between the best of all, which is to do injustice and not be punished, and the worst of all, which is to suffer injustice without the power of retaliation; and justice, being at a middle point between the two, is tolerated not as a good, but as the lesser evil, and honoured by reason of the inability of men to do injustice. For no man who is worthy to be called a man would ever submit to such an agreement if he were able to resist; he would be mad if he did. Such is the received account, Socrates, of the nature and origin of justice.

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Now that those who practise justice do so involuntarily and because they have not the power to be unjust will best appear if we imagine something of this kind: having given both to the just and the unjust power to do what they will, let us watch and see whither desire will lead them; then we shall discover in the very act the just and unjust man to be proceeding along the same road, following their interest, which all natures deem to be their good, and are only diverted into the path of justice by the force of law. The liberty which we are supposing may be most completely given to them in the form of such a power as is said to have been possessed by Gyges, the ancestor of Croesus the Lydian. According to the tradition, Gyges was a shepherd in the service of the king of Lydia; there was a great storm, and an earthquake made an opening in the earth at the place where he was feeding his flock. Amazed at the sight, he descended into the opening, where, among other marvels, he beheld a hollow brazen horse, having doors, at which he stooping and looking in saw a dead body of stature, as appeared to him, more than human, and having nothing on but a gold ring; this he took from the finger of the dead and reascended. Now the shepherds met together, according to custom, that they might send their monthly report about the flocks to the king; into their assembly he came having the ring on his finger, and as he was sitting among them he chanced to turn the collet of the ring inside his hand, when instantly he became invisible to the rest of the company and they began to speak of him as if he were no longer present. He was astonished at this, and again touching the ring he turned the collet outwards and reappeared; he made several trials of the ring, and always with the same result—when he turned the collet inwards he became invisible, when outwards he reappeared. Whereupon he contrived to be chosen one of the messengers who were sent to the court; whereas soon as he arrived he seduced the queen, and with her help conspired against the king and slew him, and took the kingdom. Suppose now that there were two such magic rings, and the just put on one of them and the unjust the other; no man can be imagined to be of such an iron nature that he would stand fast in justice. No man would keep his hands off what was not his own when he could safely take what he liked out of the market, or go into houses and lie with any one at his pleasure, or kill or release from prison whom he would, and in all respects be like a God among men. Then the actions of the just would be as the actions of the unjust; they would both come at last to the same point. And this we may truly affirm to be a great proof that a man is just, not willingly or because he thinks that justice is any good to him individually, but of necessity, for wherever any one thinks that he can safely be unjust, there he is unjust. For all men believe in their hearts that injustice is far more profitable to the individual than justice, and he who argues as I have been supposing, will say that they are right. If you could imagine any one obtaining this power of becoming invisible, and never doing any wrong or touching what was another's, he would be thought by the lookers-on to be a most wretched idiot, although they would praise him to one another's faces, and keep up appearances with one another from a fear that they too might suffer injustice. Enough of this.

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Now, if we are to form a real judgment of the life of the just and unjust, we must isolate them; there is no other way; and how is the isolation to be effected? I answer: Let the unjust man be entirely unjust, and the just man entirely just; nothing is to be taken away from either of them, and both are to be perfectly furnished for the work of their respective lives. First, let the unjust be like other distinguished masters of craft; like the skilful pilot or physician, who knows intuitively his own powers and keeps within their limits, and who, if he fails at any point, is able to recover himself. So let the unjust make his unjust attempts in the right way, and lie hidden if he means to be great in his injustice: (he who is found out is nobody:) for the highest reach of injustice is, to be deemed just when you are not. Therefore I say that in the perfectly unjust man we must assume the most perfect injustice; there is to be no deduction, but we must allow him, while doing the most unjust acts, to have acquired the greatest reputation for justice. If he have taken a false step he must be able to recover himself; he must be one who can speak with effect, if any of his deeds come to light, and who can force his way where force is required by his courage and strength, and command of money and friends. And at his side let us place the just man in his nobleness and simplicity, wishing, as Aeschylus says, to be and not to seem good. There must be no seeming, for if he seem to be just he will be honoured and rewarded, and then we shall not know whether he is just for the sake of justice or for the sake of honours and rewards; therefore, let him be clothed in justice only, and have no other covering; and he must be imagined in a state of life the opposite of the former. Let him be the best of men, and let him be thought the worst; then he will have been put to the proof; and we shall see whether he will be affected by the fear of infamy and its consequences. And let him continue thus to the hour of death; being just and seeming to be unjust. When both have reached the uttermost extreme, the one of justice and the other of injustice, let judgment be given which of them is the happier of the two.

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Heavens! my dear Glaucon, I said, how energetically you polish them up for the decision, first one and then the other, as if they were two statues.

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I do my best, he said. And now that we know what they are like there is no difficulty in tracing out the sort of life which awaits either of them. This I will proceed to describe; but as you may think the description a little too coarse, I ask you to suppose, Socrates, that the words which follow are not mine.—Let me put them into the mouths of the eulogists of injustice: They will tell you that the just man who is thought unjust will be scourged, racked, bound—will have his eyes burnt out; and, at last, after suffering every kind of evil, he will be impaled: Then he will understand that he ought to seem only, and not to be, just; the words of Aeschylus may be more truly spoken of the unjust than of the just. For the unjust is pursuing a reality; he does not live with a view to appearances—he wants to be really unjust and not to seem only:—

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'His mind has a soil deep and fertile, Out of which spring his prudent counsels.'

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In the first place, he is thought just, and therefore bears rule in the city; he can marry whom he will, and give in marriage to whom he will; also he can trade and deal where he likes, and always to his own advantage, because he has no misgivings about injustice; and at every contest, whether in public or private, he gets the better of his antagonists, and gains at their expense, and is rich, and out of his gains he can benefit his friends, and harm his enemies; moreover, he can offer sacrifices, and dedicate gifts to the gods abundantly and magnificently, and can honour the gods or any man whom he wants to honour in a far better style than the just, and therefore he is likely to be dearer than they are to the gods. And thus, Socrates, gods and men are said to unite in making the life of the unjust better than the life of the just.

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I was going to say something in answer to Glaucon, when Adeimantus, his brother, interposed: Socrates, he said, you do not suppose that there is nothing more to be urged?

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Why, what else is there? I answered.

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The strongest point of all has not been even mentioned, he replied.

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Well, then, according to the proverb, 'Let brother help brother'—if he fails in any part do you assist him; although I must confess that Glaucon has already said quite enough to lay me in the dust, and take from me the power of helping justice.

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Nonsense, he replied. But let me add something more: There is another

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side to Glaucon's argument about the praise and censure of justice

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and injustice, which is equally required in order to bring out what I

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believe to be his meaning. Parents and tutors are always telling their

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sons and their wards that they are to be just; but why? not for the sake

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of justice, but for the sake of character and reputation; in the hope of

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obtaining for him who is reputed just some of those offices, marriages,

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and the like which Glaucon has enumerated among the advantages accruing

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to the unjust from the reputation of justice. More, however, is made of

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appearances by this class of persons than by the others; for they

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throw in the good opinion of the gods, and will tell you of a shower of

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benefits which the heavens, as they say, rain upon the pious; and this

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accords with the testimony of the noble Hesiod and Homer, the first of

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whom says, that the gods make the oaks of the just—

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'To bear acorns at their summit, and bees in the middle;

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And the sheep are bowed down with the weight of their fleeces,'

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and many other blessings of a like kind are provided for them. And Homer has a very similar strain; for he speaks of one whose fame is—

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'As the fame of some blameless king who, like a god, Maintains justice; to whom the black earth brings forth Wheat and barley, whose trees are bowed with fruit, And his sheep never fail to bear, and the sea gives him fish.'

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Still grander are the gifts of heaven which Musaeus and his son vouchsafe to the just; they take them down into the world below, where they have the saints lying on couches at a feast, everlastingly drunk, crowned with garlands; their idea seems to be that an immortality of drunkenness is the highest meed of virtue. Some extend their rewards yet further; the posterity, as they say, of the faithful and just shall survive to the third and fourth generation. This is the style in which they praise justice. But about the wicked there is another strain; they bury them in a slough in Hades, and make them carry water in a sieve; also while they are yet living they bring them to infamy, and inflict upon them the punishments which Glaucon described as the portion of the just who are reputed to be unjust; nothing else does their invention supply. Such is their manner of praising the one and censuring the other.

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Once more, Socrates, I will ask you to consider another way of speaking about justice and injustice, which is not confined to the poets, but is found in prose writers. The universal voice of mankind is always declaring that justice and virtue are honourable, but grievous and toilsome; and that the pleasures of vice and injustice are easy of attainment, and are only censured by law and opinion. They say also that honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty; and they are quite ready to call wicked men happy, and to honour them both in public and private when they are rich or in any other way influential, while they despise and overlook those who may be weak and poor, even though acknowledging them to be better than the others. But most extraordinary of all is their mode of speaking about virtue and the gods: they say that the gods apportion calamity and misery to many good men, and good and happiness to the wicked. And mendicant prophets go to rich men's doors and persuade them that they have a power committed to them by the gods of making an atonement for a man's own or his ancestor's sins by sacrifices or charms, with rejoicings and feasts; and they promise to harm an enemy, whether just or unjust, at a small cost; with magic arts and incantations binding heaven, as they say, to execute their will. And the poets are the authorities to whom they appeal, now smoothing the path of vice with the words of Hesiod;—

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'Vice may be had in abundance without trouble; the way is smooth and her dwelling-place is near. But before virtue the gods have set toil,'

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and a tedious and uphill road: then citing Homer as a witness that the gods may be influenced by men; for he also says:—

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'The gods, too, may be turned from their purpose; and men pray to them and avert their wrath by sacrifices and soothing entreaties, and by libations and the odour of fat, when they have sinned and transgressed.'

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And they produce a host of books written by Musaeus and Orpheus, who were children of the Moon and the Muses—that is what they say—according to which they perform their ritual, and persuade not only individuals, but whole cities, that expiations and atonements for sin may be made by sacrifices and amusements which fill a vacant hour, and are equally at the service of the living and the dead; the latter sort they call mysteries, and they redeem us from the pains of hell, but if we neglect them no one knows what awaits us.

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He proceeded: And now when the young hear all this said about virtue and vice, and the way in which gods and men regard them, how are their minds likely to be affected, my dear Socrates,—those of them, I mean, who are quickwitted, and, like bees on the wing, light on every flower, and from all that they hear are prone to draw conclusions as to what manner of persons they should be and in what way they should walk if they would make the best of life? Probably the youth will say to himself in the words of Pindar—

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'Can I by justice or by crooked ways of deceit ascend a loftier tower which may be a fortress to me all my days?'

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For what men say is that, if I am really just and am not also thought just profit there is none, but the pain and loss on the other hand are unmistakeable. But if, though unjust, I acquire the reputation of justice, a heavenly life is promised to me. Since then, as philosophers prove, appearance tyrannizes over truth and is lord of happiness, to appearance I must devote myself. I will describe around me a picture and shadow of virtue to be the vestibule and exterior of my house; behind I will trail the subtle and crafty fox, as Archilochus, greatest of sages, recommends. But I hear some one exclaiming that the concealment of wickedness is often difficult; to which I answer, Nothing great is easy. Nevertheless, the argument indicates this, if we would be happy, to be the path along which we should proceed. With a view to concealment we will establish secret brotherhoods and political clubs. And there are professors of rhetoric who teach the art of persuading courts and assemblies; and so, partly by persuasion and partly by force, I shall make unlawful gains and not be punished. Still I hear a voice saying that the gods cannot be deceived, neither can they be compelled. But what if there are no gods? or, suppose them to have no care of human things—why in either case should we mind about concealment? And even if there are gods, and they do care about us, yet we know of them only from tradition and the genealogies of the poets; and these are the very persons who say that they may be influenced and turned by 'sacrifices and soothing entreaties and by offerings.' Let us be consistent then, and believe both or neither. If the poets speak truly, why then we had better be unjust, and offer of the fruits of injustice; for if we are just, although we may escape the vengeance of heaven, we shall lose the gains of injustice; but, if we are unjust, we shall keep the gains, and by our sinning and praying, and praying and sinning, the gods will be propitiated, and we shall not be punished. 'But there is a world below in which either we or our posterity will suffer for our unjust deeds.' Yes, my friend, will be the reflection, but there are mysteries and atoning deities, and these have great power. That is what mighty cities declare; and the children of the gods, who were their poets and prophets, bear a like testimony.

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On what principle, then, shall we any longer choose justice rather than the worst injustice? when, if we only unite the latter with a deceitful regard to appearances, we shall fare to our mind both with gods and men, in life and after death, as the most numerous and the highest authorities tell us. Knowing all this, Socrates, how can a man who has any superiority of mind or person or rank or wealth, be willing to honour justice; or indeed to refrain from laughing when he hears justice praised? And even if there should be some one who is able to disprove the truth of my words, and who is satisfied that justice is best, still he is not angry with the unjust, but is very ready to forgive them, because he also knows that men are not just of their own free will; unless, peradventure, there be some one whom the divinity within him may have inspired with a hatred of injustice, or who has attained knowledge of the truth—but no other man. He only blames injustice who, owing to cowardice or age or some weakness, has not the power of being unjust. And this is proved by the fact that when he obtains the power, he immediately becomes unjust as far as he can be.

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The cause of all this, Socrates, was indicated by us at the beginning of the argument, when my brother and I told you how astonished we were to find that of all the professing panegyrists of justice—beginning with the ancient heroes of whom any memorial has been preserved to us, and ending with the men of our own time—no one has ever blamed injustice or praised justice except with a view to the glories, honours, and benefits which flow from them. No one has ever adequately described either in verse or prose the true essential nature of either of them abiding in the soul, and invisible to any human or divine eye; or shown that of all the things of a man's soul which he has within him, justice is the greatest good, and injustice the greatest evil. Had this been the universal strain, had you sought to persuade us of this from our youth upwards, we should not have been on the watch to keep one another from doing wrong, but every one would have been his own watchman, because afraid, if he did wrong, of harbouring in himself the greatest of evils. I dare say that Thrasymachus and others would seriously hold the language which I have been merely repeating, and words even stronger than these about justice and injustice, grossly, as I conceive, perverting their true nature. But I speak in this vehement manner, as I must frankly confess to you, because I want to hear from you the opposite side; and I would ask you to show not only the superiority which justice has over injustice, but what effect they have on the possessor of them which makes the one to be a good and the other an evil to him. And please, as Glaucon requested of you, to exclude reputations; for unless you take away from each of them his true reputation and add on the false, we shall say that you do not praise justice, but the appearance of it; we shall think that you are only exhorting us to keep injustice dark, and that you really agree with Thrasymachus in thinking that justice is another's good and the interest of the stronger, and that injustice is a man's own profit and interest, though injurious to the weaker. Now as you have admitted that justice is one of that highest class of goods which are desired indeed for their results, but in a far greater degree for their own sakes—like sight or hearing or knowledge or health, or any other real and natural and not merely conventional good—I would ask you in your praise of justice to regard one point only: I mean the essential good and evil which justice and injustice work in the possessors of them. Let others praise justice and censure injustice, magnifying the rewards and honours of the one and abusing the other; that is a manner of arguing which, coming from them, I am ready to tolerate, but from you who have spent your whole life in the consideration of this question, unless I hear the contrary from your own lips, I expect something better. And therefore, I say, not only prove to us that justice is better than injustice, but show what they either of them do to the possessor of them, which makes the one to be a good and the other an evil, whether seen or unseen by gods and men.

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I had always admired the genius of Glaucon and Adeimantus, but on hearing these words I was quite delighted, and said: Sons of an illustrious father, that was not a bad beginning of the Elegiac verses which the admirer of Glaucon made in honour of you after you had distinguished yourselves at the battle of Megara:—

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'Sons of Ariston,' he sang, 'divine offspring of an illustrious hero.'

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The epithet is very appropriate, for there is something truly divine in being able to argue as you have done for the superiority of injustice, and remaining unconvinced by your own arguments. And I do believe that you are not convinced—this I infer from your general character, for had I judged only from your speeches I should have mistrusted you. But now, the greater my confidence in you, the greater is my difficulty in knowing what to say. For I am in a strait between two; on the one hand I feel that I am unequal to the task; and my inability is brought home to me by the fact that you were not satisfied with the answer which I made to Thrasymachus, proving, as I thought, the superiority which justice has over injustice. And yet I cannot refuse to help, while breath and speech remain to me; I am afraid that there would be an impiety in being present when justice is evil spoken of and not lifting up a hand in her defence. And therefore I had best give such help as I can.

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Glaucon and the rest entreated me by all means not to let the question drop, but to proceed in the investigation. They wanted to arrive at the truth, first, about the nature of justice and injustice, and secondly, about their relative advantages. I told them, what I really thought, that the enquiry would be of a serious nature, and would require very good eyes. Seeing then, I said, that we are no great wits, I think that we had better adopt a method which I may illustrate thus; suppose that a short-sighted person had been asked by some one to read small letters from a distance; and it occurred to some one else that they might be found in another place which was larger and in which the letters were larger—if they were the same and he could read the larger letters first, and then proceed to the lesser—this would have been thought a rare piece of good fortune.

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Very true, said Adeimantus; but how does the illustration apply to our enquiry?

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I will tell you, I replied; justice, which is the subject of our enquiry, is, as you know, sometimes spoken of as the virtue of an individual, and sometimes as the virtue of a State.

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True, he replied.

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And is not a State larger than an individual?

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It is.

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Then in the larger the quantity of justice is likely to be larger and more easily discernible. I propose therefore that we enquire into the nature of justice and injustice, first as they appear in the State, and secondly in the individual, proceeding from the greater to the lesser and comparing them.

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That, he said, is an excellent proposal.

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And if we imagine the State in process of creation, we shall see the justice and injustice of the State in process of creation also.

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I dare say.

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When the State is completed there may be a hope that the object of our search will be more easily discovered.

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Yes, far more easily.

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But ought we to attempt to construct one? I said; for to do so, as I am inclined to think, will be a very serious task. Reflect therefore.

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I have reflected, said Adeimantus, and am anxious that you should proceed.

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A State, I said, arises, as I conceive, out of the needs of mankind; no one is self-sufficing, but all of us have many wants. Can any other origin of a State be imagined?

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There can be no other.

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Then, as we have many wants, and many persons are needed to supply them, one takes a helper for one purpose and another for another; and when these partners and helpers are gathered together in one habitation the body of inhabitants is termed a State.

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True, he said.

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And they exchange with one another, and one gives, and another receives, under the idea that the exchange will be for their good.

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Very true.

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Then, I said, let us begin and create in idea a State; and yet the true creator is necessity, who is the mother of our invention.

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Of course, he replied.

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Now the first and greatest of necessities is food, which is the condition of life and existence.

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Certainly.

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The second is a dwelling, and the third clothing and the like.

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True.

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And now let us see how our city will be able to supply this great demand: We may suppose that one man is a husbandman, another a builder, some one else a weaver—shall we add to them a shoemaker, or perhaps some other purveyor to our bodily wants?

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Quite right.

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The barest notion of a State must include four or five men.

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Clearly.

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And how will they proceed? Will each bring the result of his labours into a common stock?—the individual husbandman, for example, producing for four, and labouring four times as long and as much as he need in the provision of food with which he supplies others as well as himself; or will he have nothing to do with others and not be at the trouble of producing for them, but provide for himself alone a fourth of the food in a fourth of the time, and in the remaining three fourths of his time be employed in making a house or a coat or a pair of shoes, having no partnership with others, but supplying himself all his own wants?

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Adeimantus thought that he should aim at producing food only and not at producing everything.

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Probably, I replied, that would be the better way; and when I hear you say this, I am myself reminded that we are not all alike; there are diversities of natures among us which are adapted to different occupations.

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Very true.

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And will you have a work better done when the workman has many occupations, or when he has only one?

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When he has only one.

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Further, there can be no doubt that a work is spoilt when not done at the right time?

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No doubt.

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For business is not disposed to wait until the doer of the business is at leisure; but the doer must follow up what he is doing, and make the business his first object.

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He must.

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And if so, we must infer that all things are produced more plentifully and easily and of a better quality when one man does one thing which is natural to him and does it at the right time, and leaves other things.

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Undoubtedly.

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Then more than four citizens will be required; for the husbandman will not make his own plough or mattock, or other implements of agriculture, if they are to be good for anything. Neither will the builder make his tools—and he too needs many; and in like manner the weaver and shoemaker.

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True.

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Then carpenters, and smiths, and many other artisans, will be sharers in our little State, which is already beginning to grow?

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True.

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Yet even if we add neatherds, shepherds, and other herdsmen, in order that our husbandmen may have oxen to plough with, and builders as well as husbandmen may have draught cattle, and curriers and weavers fleeces and hides,—still our State will not be very large.

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That is true; yet neither will it be a very small State which contains all these.

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Then, again, there is the situation of the city—to find a place where nothing need be imported is wellnigh impossible.

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Impossible.

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Then there must be another class of citizens who will bring the required supply from another city?

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There must.

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But if the trader goes empty-handed, having nothing which they require who would supply his need, he will come back empty-handed.

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That is certain.

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And therefore what they produce at home must be not only enough for themselves, but such both in quantity and quality as to accommodate those from whom their wants are supplied.

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Very true.

115

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Then more husbandmen and more artisans will be required?

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They will.

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Not to mention the importers and exporters, who are called merchants?

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Yes.

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Then we shall want merchants?

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We shall.

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And if merchandise is to be carried over the sea, skilful sailors will also be needed, and in considerable numbers?

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Yes, in considerable numbers.

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Then, again, within the city, how will they exchange their productions? To secure such an exchange was, as you will remember, one of our principal objects when we formed them into a society and constituted a State.

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Clearly they will buy and sell.

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Then they will need a market-place, and a money-token for purposes of exchange.

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Certainly.

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Suppose now that a husbandman, or an artisan, brings some production to market, and he comes at a time when there is no one to exchange with him,—is he to leave his calling and sit idle in the market-place?

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Not at all; he will find people there who, seeing the want, undertake the office of salesmen. In well-ordered states they are commonly those who are the weakest in bodily strength, and therefore of little use for any other purpose; their duty is to be in the market, and to give money in exchange for goods to those who desire to sell and to take money from those who desire to buy.

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This want, then, creates a class of retail-traders in our State. Is not 'retailer' the term which is applied to those who sit in the market-place engaged in buying and selling, while those who wander from one city to another are called merchants?

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Yes, he said.

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And there is another class of servants, who are intellectually hardly on the level of companionship; still they have plenty of bodily strength for labour, which accordingly they sell, and are called, if I do not mistake, hirelings, hire being the name which is given to the price of their labour.

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True.

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Then hirelings will help to make up our population?

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Yes.

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And now, Adeimantus, is our State matured and perfected?

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I think so.

137

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Where, then, is justice, and where is injustice, and in what part of the State did they spring up?

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Probably in the dealings of these citizens with one another. I cannot imagine that they are more likely to be found any where else.

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I dare say that you are right in your suggestion, I said; we had better think the matter out, and not shrink from the enquiry.

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Let us then consider, first of all, what will be their way of life, now that we have thus established them. Will they not produce corn, and wine, and clothes, and shoes, and build houses for themselves? And when they are housed, they will work, in summer, commonly, stripped and barefoot, but in winter substantially clothed and shod. They will feed on barley-meal and flour of wheat, baking and kneading them, making noble cakes and loaves; these they will serve up on a mat of reeds or on clean leaves, themselves reclining the while upon beds strewn with yew or myrtle. And they and their children will feast, drinking of the wine which they have made, wearing garlands on their heads, and hymning the praises of the gods, in happy converse with one another. And they will take care that their families do not exceed their means; having an eye to poverty or war.

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But, said Glaucon, interposing, you have not given them a relish to their meal.

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True, I replied, I had forgotten; of course they must have a relish—salt, and olives, and cheese, and they will boil roots and herbs such as country people prepare; for a dessert we shall give them figs, and peas, and beans; and they will roast myrtle-berries and acorns at the fire, drinking in moderation. And with such a diet they may be expected to live in peace and health to a good old age, and bequeath a similar life to their children after them.

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Yes, Socrates, he said, and if you were providing for a city of pigs, how else would you feed the beasts?

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But what would you have, Glaucon? I replied.

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Why, he said, you should give them the ordinary conveniences of life. People who are to be comfortable are accustomed to lie on sofas, and dine off tables, and they should have sauces and sweets in the modern style.

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Yes, I said, now I understand: the question which you would have me consider is, not only how a State, but how a luxurious State is created; and possibly there is no harm in this, for in such a State we shall be more likely to see how justice and injustice originate. In my opinion the true and healthy constitution of the State is the one which I have described. But if you wish also to see a State at fever-heat, I have no objection. For I suspect that many will not be satisfied with the simpler way of life. They will be for adding sofas, and tables, and other furniture; also dainties, and perfumes, and incense, and courtesans, and cakes, all these not of one sort only, but in every variety; we must go beyond the necessaries of which I was at first speaking, such as houses, and clothes, and shoes: the arts of the painter and the embroiderer will have to be set in motion, and gold and ivory and all sorts of materials must be procured.

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True, he said.

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Then we must enlarge our borders; for the original healthy State is no longer sufficient. Now will the city have to fill and swell with a multitude of callings which are not required by any natural want; such as the whole tribe of hunters and actors, of whom one large class have to do with forms and colours; another will be the votaries of music—poets and their attendant train of rhapsodists, players, dancers, contractors; also makers of divers kinds of articles, including women's dresses. And we shall want more servants. Will not tutors be also in request, and nurses wet and dry, tirewomen and barbers, as well as confectioners and cooks; and swineherds, too, who were not needed and therefore had no place in the former edition of our State, but are needed now? They must not be forgotten: and there will be animals of many other kinds, if people eat them.

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Certainly.

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And living in this way we shall have much greater need of physicians than before?

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Much greater.

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And the country which was enough to support the original inhabitants will be too small now, and not enough?

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Quite true.

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Then a slice of our neighbours' land will be wanted by us for pasture and tillage, and they will want a slice of ours, if, like ourselves, they exceed the limit of necessity, and give themselves up to the unlimited accumulation of wealth?

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That, Socrates, will be inevitable.

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And so we shall go to war, Glaucon. Shall we not?

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Most certainly, he replied.

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Then without determining as yet whether war does good or harm, thus much we may affirm, that now we have discovered war to be derived from causes which are also the causes of almost all the evils in States, private as well as public.

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Undoubtedly.

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And our State must once more enlarge; and this time the enlargement will be nothing short of a whole army, which will have to go out and fight with the invaders for all that we have, as well as for the things and persons whom we were describing above.

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Why? he said; are they not capable of defending themselves?

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No, I said; not if we were right in the principle which was acknowledged by all of us when we were framing the State: the principle, as you will remember, was that one man cannot practise many arts with success.

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Very true, he said.

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But is not war an art?

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Certainly.

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And an art requiring as much attention as shoemaking?

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Quite true.

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And the shoemaker was not allowed by us to be a husbandman, or a weaver, or a builder—in order that we might have our shoes well made; but to him and to every other worker was assigned one work for which he was by nature fitted, and at that he was to continue working all his life long and at no other; he was not to let opportunities slip, and then he would become a good workman. Now nothing can be more important than that the work of a soldier should be well done. But is war an art so easily acquired that a man may be a warrior who is also a husbandman, or shoemaker, or other artisan; although no one in the world would be a good dice or draught player who merely took up the game as a recreation, and had not from his earliest years devoted himself to this and nothing else? No tools will make a man a skilled workman, or master of defence, nor be of any use to him who has not learned how to handle them, and has never bestowed any attention upon them. How then will he who takes up a shield or other implement of war become a good fighter all in a day, whether with heavy-armed or any other kind of troops?

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Yes, he said, the tools which would teach men their own use would be beyond price.

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And the higher the duties of the guardian, I said, the more time, and skill, and art, and application will be needed by him?

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No doubt, he replied.

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Will he not also require natural aptitude for his calling?

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Certainly.

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Then it will be our duty to select, if we can, natures which are fitted for the task of guarding the city?

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It will.

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And the selection will be no easy matter, I said; but we must be brave and do our best.

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We must.

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Is not the noble youth very like a well-bred dog in respect of guarding and watching?

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What do you mean?

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I mean that both of them ought to be quick to see, and swift to overtake the enemy when they see him; and strong too if, when they have caught him, they have to fight with him.

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All these qualities, he replied, will certainly be required by them.

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Well, and your guardian must be brave if he is to fight well?

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Certainly.

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And is he likely to be brave who has no spirit, whether horse or dog or any other animal? Have you never observed how invincible and unconquerable is spirit and how the presence of it makes the soul of any creature to be absolutely fearless and indomitable?

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I have.

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Then now we have a clear notion of the bodily qualities which are required in the guardian.

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True.

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And also of the mental ones; his soul is to be full of spirit?

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Yes.

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But are not these spirited natures apt to be savage with one another, and with everybody else?

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A difficulty by no means easy to overcome, he replied.

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Whereas, I said, they ought to be dangerous to their enemies, and gentle to their friends; if not, they will destroy themselves without waiting for their enemies to destroy them.

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True, he said.

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What is to be done then? I said; how shall we find a gentle nature which has also a great spirit, for the one is the contradiction of the other?

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True.

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He will not be a good guardian who is wanting in either of these two qualities; and yet the combination of them appears to be impossible; and hence we must infer that to be a good guardian is impossible.

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I am afraid that what you say is true, he replied.

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Here feeling perplexed I began to think over what had preceded.—My friend, I said, no wonder that we are in a perplexity; for we have lost sight of the image which we had before us.

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What do you mean? he said.

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I mean to say that there do exist natures gifted with those opposite qualities.

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And where do you find them?

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Many animals, I replied, furnish examples of them; our friend the dog is a very good one: you know that well-bred dogs are perfectly gentle to their familiars and acquaintances, and the reverse to strangers.

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Yes, I know.

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Then there is nothing impossible or out of the order of nature in our finding a guardian who has a similar combination of qualities?

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Certainly not.

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Would not he who is fitted to be a guardian, besides the spirited nature, need to have the qualities of a philosopher?

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I do not apprehend your meaning.

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The trait of which I am speaking, I replied, may be also seen in the dog, and is remarkable in the animal.

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What trait?

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Why, a dog, whenever he sees a stranger, is angry; when an acquaintance, he welcomes him, although the one has never done him any harm, nor the other any good. Did this never strike you as curious?

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The matter never struck me before; but I quite recognise the truth of your remark.

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And surely this instinct of the dog is very charming;—your dog is a true philosopher.

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Why?

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Why, because he distinguishes the face of a friend and of an enemy only by the criterion of knowing and not knowing. And must not an animal be a lover of learning who determines what he likes and dislikes by the test of knowledge and ignorance?

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Most assuredly.

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And is not the love of learning the love of wisdom, which is philosophy?

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They are the same, he replied.

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And may we not say confidently of man also, that he who is likely to be gentle to his friends and acquaintances, must by nature be a lover of wisdom and knowledge?

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That we may safely affirm.

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Then he who is to be a really good and noble guardian of the State will require to unite in himself philosophy and spirit and swiftness and strength?

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Undoubtedly.

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Then we have found the desired natures; and now that we have found them, how are they to be reared and educated? Is not this an enquiry which may be expected to throw light on the greater enquiry which is our final end—How do justice and injustice grow up in States? for we do not want either to omit what is to the point or to draw out the argument to an inconvenient length.

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Adeimantus thought that the enquiry would be of great service to us.

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Then, I said, my dear friend, the task must not be given up, even if somewhat long.

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Certainly not.

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Come then, and let us pass a leisure hour in story-telling, and our story shall be the education of our heroes.

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By all means.

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And what shall be their education? Can we find a better than the traditional sort?—and this has two divisions, gymnastic for the body, and music for the soul.

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True.

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Shall we begin education with music, and go on to gymnastic afterwards?

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By all means.

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And when you speak of music, do you include literature or not?

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I do.

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And literature may be either true or false?

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Yes.

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And the young should be trained in both kinds, and we begin with the false?

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I do not understand your meaning, he said.

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You know, I said, that we begin by telling children stories which, though not wholly destitute of truth, are in the main fictitious; and these stories are told them when they are not of an age to learn gymnastics.

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Very true.

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That was my meaning when I said that we must teach music before gymnastics.

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Quite right, he said.

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You know also that the beginning is the most important part of any work, especially in the case of a young and tender thing; for that is the time at which the character is being formed and the desired impression is more readily taken.

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Quite true.

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And shall we just carelessly allow children to hear any casual tales which may be devised by casual persons, and to receive into their minds ideas for the most part the very opposite of those which we should wish them to have when they are grown up?

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We cannot.

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Then the first thing will be to establish a censorship of the writers of fiction, and let the censors receive any tale of fiction which is good, and reject the bad; and we will desire mothers and nurses to tell their children the authorised ones only. Let them fashion the mind with such tales, even more fondly than they mould the body with their hands; but most of those which are now in use must be discarded.

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Of what tales are you speaking? he said.

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You may find a model of the lesser in the greater, I said; for they are necessarily of the same type, and there is the same spirit in both of them.

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Very likely, he replied; but I do not as yet know what you would term the greater.

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Those, I said, which are narrated by Homer and Hesiod, and the rest of the poets, who have ever been the great story-tellers of mankind.

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But which stories do you mean, he said; and what fault do you find with them?

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A fault which is most serious, I said; the fault of telling a lie, and, what is more, a bad lie.

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But when is this fault committed?

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Whenever an erroneous representation is made of the nature of gods and heroes,—as when a painter paints a portrait not having the shadow of a likeness to the original.

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Yes, he said, that sort of thing is certainly very blameable; but what are the stories which you mean?

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First of all, I said, there was that greatest of all lies in high places, which the poet told about Uranus, and which was a bad lie too,—I mean what Hesiod says that Uranus did, and how Cronus retaliated on him. The doings of Cronus, and the sufferings which in turn his son inflicted upon him, even if they were true, ought certainly not to be lightly told to young and thoughtless persons; if possible, they had better be buried in silence. But if there is an absolute necessity for their mention, a chosen few might hear them in a mystery, and they should sacrifice not a common (Eleusinian) pig, but some huge and unprocurable victim; and then the number of the hearers will be very few indeed.

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Why, yes, said he, those stories are extremely objectionable.

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Yes, Adeimantus, they are stories not to be repeated in our State; the young man should not be told that in committing the worst of crimes he is far from doing anything outrageous; and that even if he chastises his father when he does wrong, in whatever manner, he will only be following the example of the first and greatest among the gods.

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I entirely agree with you, he said; in my opinion those stories are quite unfit to be repeated.

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Neither, if we mean our future guardians to regard the habit of quarrelling among themselves as of all things the basest, should any word be said to them of the wars in heaven, and of the plots and fightings of the gods against one another, for they are not true. No, we shall never mention the battles of the giants, or let them be embroidered on garments; and we shall be silent about the innumerable other quarrels of gods and heroes with their friends and relatives. If they would only believe us we would tell them that quarrelling is unholy, and that never up to this time has there been any quarrel between citizens; this is what old men and old women should begin by telling children; and when they grow up, the poets also should be told to compose for them in a similar spirit. But the narrative of Hephaestus binding Here his mother, or how on another occasion Zeus sent him flying for taking her part when she was being beaten, and all the battles of the gods in Homer—these tales must not be admitted into our State, whether they are supposed to have an allegorical meaning or not. For a young person cannot judge what is allegorical and what is literal; anything that he receives into his mind at that age is likely to become indelible and unalterable; and therefore it is most important that the tales which the young first hear should be models of virtuous thoughts.

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There you are right, he replied; but if any one asks where are such models to be found and of what tales are you speaking—how shall we answer him?

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I said to him, You and I, Adeimantus, at this moment are not poets, but founders of a State: now the founders of a State ought to know the general forms in which poets should cast their tales, and the limits which must be observed by them, but to make the tales is not their business.

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Very true, he said; but what are these forms of theology which you mean?

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Something of this kind, I replied:—God is always to be represented as he truly is, whatever be the sort of poetry, epic, lyric or tragic, in which the representation is given.

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Right.

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And is he not truly good? and must he not be represented as such?

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Certainly.

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And no good thing is hurtful?

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No, indeed.

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And that which is not hurtful hurts not?

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Certainly not.

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And that which hurts not does no evil?

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No.

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And can that which does no evil be a cause of evil?

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Impossible.

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And the good is advantageous?

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Yes.

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And therefore the cause of well-being?

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Yes.

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It follows therefore that the good is not the cause of all things, but of the good only?

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Assuredly.

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Then God, if he be good, is not the author of all things, as the many assert, but he is the cause of a few things only, and not of most things that occur to men. For few are the goods of human life, and many are the evils, and the good is to be attributed to God alone; of the evils the causes are to be sought elsewhere, and not in him.

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That appears to me to be most true, he said.

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Then we must not listen to Homer or to any other poet who is guilty of the folly of saying that two casks

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'Lie at the threshold of Zeus, full of lots, one of good, the other of evil lots,'

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and that he to whom Zeus gives a mixture of the two

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'Sometimes meets with evil fortune, at other times with good;'

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but that he to whom is given the cup of unmingled ill,

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'Him wild hunger drives o'er the beauteous earth.'

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And again—

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'Zeus, who is the dispenser of good and evil to us.'

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And if any one asserts that the violation of oaths and treaties, which was really the work of Pandarus, was brought about by Athene and Zeus, or that the strife and contention of the gods was instigated by Themis and Zeus, he shall not have our approval; neither will we allow our young men to hear the words of Aeschylus, that

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'God plants guilt among men when he desires utterly to destroy a house.'

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And if a poet writes of the sufferings of Niobe—the subject of the tragedy in which these iambic verses occur—or of the house of Pelops, or of the Trojan war or on any similar theme, either we must not permit him to say that these are the works of God, or if they are of God, he must devise some explanation of them such as we are seeking; he must say that God did what was just and right, and they were the better for being punished; but that those who are punished are miserable, and that God is the author of their misery—the poet is not to be permitted to say; though he may say that the wicked are miserable because they require to be punished, and are benefited by receiving punishment from God; but that God being good is the author of evil to any one is to be strenuously denied, and not to be said or sung or heard in verse or prose by any one whether old or young in any well-ordered commonwealth. Such a fiction is suicidal, ruinous, impious.

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I agree with you, he replied, and am ready to give my assent to the law.

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Let this then be one of our rules and principles concerning the gods, to which our poets and reciters will be expected to conform,—that God is not the author of all things, but of good only.

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That will do, he said.

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And what do you think of a second principle? Shall I ask you whether God is a magician, and of a nature to appear insidiously now in one shape, and now in another—sometimes himself changing and passing into many forms, sometimes deceiving us with the semblance of such transformations; or is he one and the same immutably fixed in his own proper image?

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I cannot answer you, he said, without more thought.

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Well, I said; but if we suppose a change in anything, that change must be effected either by the thing itself, or by some other thing?

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Most certainly.

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And things which are at their best are also least liable to be altered or discomposed; for example, when healthiest and strongest, the human frame is least liable to be affected by meats and drinks, and the plant which is in the fullest vigour also suffers least from winds or the heat of the sun or any similar causes.

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Of course.

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And will not the bravest and wisest soul be least confused or deranged by any external influence?

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True.

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And the same principle, as I should suppose, applies to all composite things—furniture, houses, garments: when good and well made, they are least altered by time and circumstances.

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Very true.

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Then everything which is good, whether made by art or nature, or both, is least liable to suffer change from without?

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True.

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But surely God and the things of God are in every way perfect?

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Of course they are.

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Then he can hardly be compelled by external influence to take many shapes?

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He cannot.

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But may he not change and transform himself?

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Clearly, he said, that must be the case if he is changed at all.

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And will he then change himself for the better and fairer, or for the worse and more unsightly?

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If he change at all he can only change for the worse, for we cannot suppose him to be deficient either in virtue or beauty.

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Very true, Adeimantus; but then, would any one, whether God or man, desire to make himself worse?

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Impossible.

320

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Then it is impossible that God should ever be willing to change; being, as is supposed, the fairest and best that is conceivable, every God remains absolutely and for ever in his own form.

321

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That necessarily follows, he said, in my judgment.

322

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Then, I said, my dear friend, let none of the poets tell us that

323

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'The gods, taking the disguise of strangers from other lands, walk up and down cities in all sorts of forms;'

324

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and let no one slander Proteus and Thetis, neither let any one, either in tragedy or in any other kind of poetry, introduce Here disguised in the likeness of a priestess asking an alms

325

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'For the life-giving daughters of Inachus the river of Argos;'

326

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—let us have no more lies of that sort. Neither must we have mothers under the influence of the poets scaring their children with a bad version of these myths—telling how certain gods, as they say, 'Go about by night in the likeness of so many strangers and in divers forms;' but let them take heed lest they make cowards of their children, and at the same time speak blasphemy against the gods.

327

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Heaven forbid, he said.

328

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But although the gods are themselves unchangeable, still by witchcraft and deception they may make us think that they appear in various forms?

329

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Perhaps, he replied.

330

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Well, but can you imagine that God will be willing to lie, whether in word or deed, or to put forth a phantom of himself?

331

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I cannot say, he replied.

332

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Do you not know, I said, that the true lie, if such an expression may be allowed, is hated of gods and men?

333

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What do you mean? he said.

334

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I mean that no one is willingly deceived in that which is the truest and highest part of himself, or about the truest and highest matters; there, above all, he is most afraid of a lie having possession of him.

335

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Still, he said, I do not comprehend you.

336

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The reason is, I replied, that you attribute some profound meaning to my words; but I am only saying that deception, or being deceived or uninformed about the highest realities in the highest part of themselves, which is the soul, and in that part of them to have and to hold the lie, is what mankind least like;—that, I say, is what they utterly detest.

337

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There is nothing more hateful to them.

338

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And, as I was just now remarking, this ignorance in the soul of him who is deceived may be called the true lie; for the lie in words is only a kind of imitation and shadowy image of a previous affection of the soul, not pure unadulterated falsehood. Am I not right?

339

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Perfectly right.

340

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The true lie is hated not only by the gods, but also by men?

341

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Yes.

342

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Whereas the lie in words is in certain cases useful and not hateful; in dealing with enemies—that would be an instance; or again, when those whom we call our friends in a fit of madness or illusion are going to do some harm, then it is useful and is a sort of medicine or preventive; also in the tales of mythology, of which we were just now speaking—because we do not know the truth about ancient times, we make falsehood as much like truth as we can, and so turn it to account.

343

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Very true, he said.

344

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But can any of these reasons apply to God? Can we suppose that he is ignorant of antiquity, and therefore has recourse to invention?

345

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That would be ridiculous, he said.

346

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Then the lying poet has no place in our idea of God?

347

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I should say not.

348

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Or perhaps he may tell a lie because he is afraid of enemies?

349

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That is inconceivable.

350

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But he may have friends who are senseless or mad?

351

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But no mad or senseless person can be a friend of God.

352

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Then no motive can be imagined why God should lie?

353

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None whatever.

354

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Then the superhuman and divine is absolutely incapable of falsehood?

355

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Yes.

356

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Then is God perfectly simple and true both in word and deed; he changes not; he deceives not, either by sign or word, by dream or waking vision.

357

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Your thoughts, he said, are the reflection of my own.

358

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You agree with me then, I said, that this is the second type or form in which we should write and speak about divine things. The gods are not magicians who transform themselves, neither do they deceive mankind in any way.

359

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I grant that.

360

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Then, although we are admirers of Homer, we do not admire the lying dream which Zeus sends to Agamemnon; neither will we praise the verses of Aeschylus in which Thetis says that Apollo at her nuptials

361

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'Was celebrating in song her fair progeny whose days were to be long, and to know no sickness. And when he had spoken of my lot as in all things blessed of heaven he raised a note of triumph and cheered my soul. And I thought that the word of Phoebus, being divine and full of prophecy, would not fail. And now he himself who uttered the strain, he who was present at the banquet, and who said this—he it is who has slain my son.'

362

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These are the kind of sentiments about the gods which will arouse our anger; and he who utters them shall be refused a chorus; neither shall we allow teachers to make use of them in the instruction of the young, meaning, as we do, that our guardians, as far as men can be, should be true worshippers of the gods and like them.

363

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I entirely agree, he said, in these principles, and promise to make them my laws.

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