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理想国|The Republic

第四卷|BOOK IV

属类： 双语小说 【分类】双语小说 -[作者: 柏拉图] 阅读：[4137]
《 字+字- 行+行- 页+页- 字+字- 行+行- 页+页- 》
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〔到此阿得曼托斯插进来提出一个问题。〕

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阿：苏格拉底，假如有人反对你的主张，说你这是要使我们的护卫者成为完全没有任何幸福的人，使他们自己成为自己不幸的原因；虽然城邦确乎是他们的，但他们从城邦得不到任何好处，他们不能象平常人那样获得土地，建造华丽的住宅，置办各种奢侈的家具，用自己的东西献祭神明，款待宾客，以争取神和人的欢心，他们也不能有你刚才所提到的金和银以及凡希望幸福的人们常有的一切；我们的护卫者竟穷得全象那些驻防城市的雇佣兵，除了站岗放哨而外什么事都没有份儿那样。——对于这种指责你怎么答复呢？

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苏：嗯，我还可以替他们补充呢：我们的护卫者只能得到吃的，除此而外，他们不能象别的人那样，再取得别的报酬；因此，他们要到那里去却不能到那里去；他们没钱给情人馈赠礼品，或在其他方面象那些被认为幸福的人那样随心所欲地花钱。诸如此类的指责我还可以补充许许多多呢。

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阿：如果这些话一并包括在指责里，怎么样呢？

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苏：你是问我们怎样解答吗？

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阿：是的。

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苏：如果我们沿着这个路子论证下去，我相信我们会找到答案的。我们的答案将是：我们的护卫者过着刚才所描述的这种生活而被说成是最幸福的，这并没有什么可奇怪的。因为，我们建立这个国家的目标并不是为了某一个阶级的单独突出的幸福，而是为了全体公民的最大幸福；因为，我们认为在一个这样的城邦里最有可能找到正义，而在一个建立得最糟的城邦里最有可能找到不正义。等到我们把正义的国家和不正义的国家都找到了之后，我们也许可以作出判断，说出这两种国家哪一种幸福了。当前我认为我们的首要任务乃是铸造出一个幸福国家的模型来，但不是支离破碎地铸造一个为了少数人幸福的国家，而是铸造一个整体的幸福国家。

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（等会儿我们还要考察相反的那种国家①。）打个比方，譬如我们要给一个塑像画上彩色，有人过来对我说：“你为什么不把最美的紫色用到身体最美的部分——眼睛上去，而把眼睛画成了黑色的呢？”对于这个问题我们完全可以认为下述回答是正确的：“你这是不知道，我们是不应该这样来美化眼睛的，否则，眼睛看上去就不象眼睛了。别的器官也如此。我们应该使五官都有其应有的样子而造成整体美。”因此我说：别来硬要我们给护卫者以那种幸福，否则就使他们不成其为护卫者了。须知，我们也可以给我们的农民穿上礼袍戴上金冠，地里的活儿，他们爱干多少就干多少；让我们的陶工也斜倚卧榻，炉边宴会，吃喝玩乐，至于制作陶器的事，爱干多少就干多少；所有其他的人我们也都可以这样使他们幸福；这样一来就全国人民都幸福啦②。但是我们不这样认为。因为，如果我们信了你的话，农民将不成其为农民，陶工将不成其为陶工，其他各种人也将不再是组成国家一个部分的他们那种人了。

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这种现象出现在别种人身上问题还不大，例如一个皮匠，他腐败了，不愿干皮匠活儿，问题还不大。但是，如果作为法律和国家保卫者的那种人不成其为护卫者了，或仅仅似乎是护卫者，那么你可以看到他们将使整个国家完全毁灭，反之，只要护卫者成其为护卫者就能使国家有良好的秩序和幸福。我们是要我们的护卫者成为真正的护国者而不是覆国者。而那些和我们主张相反的人，他们心里所想的只是正在宴席上饮酒作乐的农民，并不是正在履行对国家职责的公民。若是这样，我们说的就是两码事了，而他们所说的不是一个国家。因此，在任用我们的护卫者时，我们必须考虑，我们是否应该割裂开来单独注意他们的最大幸福，或者说，是否能把这个幸福原则不放在国家里作为一个整体来考虑。我们必须劝导护卫者及其辅助者，竭力尽责，做好自己的工作。也劝导其他的人，大家和他们一样。这样一来，整个国家将得到非常和谐的发展，各个阶级将得到自然赋予他们的那一份幸福。

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①指449A和第八章、第九章。退化的国家类型有四种，不过，和好的国家最为相反的类型是一种，即僭主政治。

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②这是一句带揶揄口吻的反话。

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阿：我认为你说得很对。

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苏：我还有一个想法，不知你是否赞同。

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阿：什么想法？

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苏：似乎有两个原因能使技艺退化。

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阿：哪两个原因？

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苏：贫和富。

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阿：它们怎么使技艺退化的呢？

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苏：是这样的：当一个陶工变富了时，请想想看，他还会那样勤苦地对待他的手艺吗？

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阿：定然不会。

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苏：他将日益懒惰和马虎，对吗？

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阿：肯定是这样。

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苏：结果他将成为一个日益蹩脚的陶工，对吗？

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阿：是的，大大退化。

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苏：但是，他如果没有钱，不能买工具器械，他也不能把自己的工作做得那么好，他也不能把自己的儿子或徒弟教得那么好。

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阿：当然不能。

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苏：因此，贫和富这两个原因都能使手艺人和他们的手艺退化，对吗？

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阿：显然是这样。

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苏：因此，如所看到的，我们在这里发现了第二害，它们是护卫者必须尽一切努力防止其在某个时候悄悄地潜入城邦的。

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阿：什么害？

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苏：贫和富呀。富则奢侈、懒散和要求变革，贫则粗野、低劣，也要求变革。

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阿：的确是这样；但是，苏格拉底啊，我还要请问，如果我们国家没有钱财物资，我们城邦如何能进行战争呢？特别是一旦不得不和一个富足而强大的城邦作战时。

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苏：很明显，和一个这样的敌人作战是比较困难的；但是和两个这样的敌人作战，却比较容易。

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阿：这是什么意思？

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苏：首先，请告诉我，如果不得不打仗，我方将是受过训练的战士，而对方则是富人组成的军队，是不是？

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阿：是这样的。

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苏：阿得曼托斯，你不认为，精于拳术的人只要一个就可以轻易地胜过两个对拳术一窍不通的胖大个儿的富人吗？

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阿：如果两个人同时向一个人进攻，我认为这一个人不见得能轻易取胜。

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苏：如果他能以脱身在前面逃，然后返身将两对手中之先追到者击倒，如果他能在如火的烈日之下多次这样做，他也不能取胜吗？这样一个斗士不能甚至击倒更多的那种对手吗？

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阿：如能那样，胜利当然就没什么可奇怪的了。

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苏：你不认为和军事方面比较起来，富人在拳术方面的知识和经验要多些吗？

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阿：我看是的。

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苏：因此，我们的拳斗士大概是容易击败数量比他多两倍、三倍的对手的。

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阿：我同意你的看法，因为我觉得你说得有道理。

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苏：如果我们派遣一名使节到两敌国之一去，把真实情况告诉他们：金银这东西我们是没有也不容许有的，但他们可以有，所以他们还是来帮助我们作战，虏掠另一敌国的好。

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听到这些话，有谁愿去和瘦而有力的狗打，而不愿意和狗在一边去攻打那肥而弱的羊呢？

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阿：我想不会有谁愿意和狗打的。但是许多国家的财富聚集到一个国家去了，对于这个穷国可能有一种危险。

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苏：对于和我们所建立的这个城邦不同的任何别的国家，如果你认为值得把它称呼为·一·个国家，那就太天真了。

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阿：那么怎么称呼它呢？

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苏：称呼别的国家时，“国家”这个名词应该用复数形式，因为它们每一个都是许多个而不是一个，正如戏曲里所说的那样。无论什么样的国家，都分成相互敌对的两个部分，一为穷人的，一为富人的，而且这两个部分各自内部还分成许多个更小的对立部分。如果你把它们都当作许多个，并且把其中一些个的财富、权力或人口许给另一些个部分，那你就会永远有许多的盟友和不多的敌人。你们的国家只要仍在认真地执行这一既定方针，就会是最强大的。我所说的最强大不是指名义上的强大，而是指实际上的强大，即使它只有一千名战士也罢。象我们拟议中的城邦这样规模而又“·是·一·个”的国家，无论在希腊还是在希腊以外的任何地方都是很难找得到的，而“·似·乎·是·一·个”的国家，比我们大许多许多倍的你也可以找得到。或许，你有不同的想法吧？

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阿：没有，真的。

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苏：因此我国的当政者在考虑城邦的规模或要拥有的疆土大小时似乎应该规定一个不能超过的最佳限度。

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阿：什么限度最佳呢？

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苏：国家大到还能保持统一——我认为这就是最佳限度，不能超过它。

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阿：很好。

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苏：因此，这是我们必须交给我们国家的护卫者的又一项使命，即尽一切办法守卫着我们的城邦，让它既不要太小，也不要仅仅是看上去很大，而要让它成为一个够大的且又统一的城邦。

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阿：我们交给他们的这个使命或许算不上一个很难的使命。

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苏：还有一个更容易的使命，我们在前面说到过的①，即如果护卫者的后裔变低劣了，应把他降入其他阶级，如果低等阶级的子孙天赋优秀，应把他提升为护卫者。这用意在于昭示：全体公民无例外地，每个人天赋适合做什么，就应派给他什么任务，以便大家各就各业，一个人就是一个人而不是多个人，于是整个城邦成为统一的一个而不是分裂的多个。

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①415B。

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阿：是的，这个使命比那个还要来得容易。

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苏：我的好阿得曼托斯，我们责成我国当政者做的这些事并不象或许有人认为的那样，是很多的困难的使命，它们都是容易做得到的，只要当政者注意一件大家常说的所谓大事就行了。（我不喜欢称之为“大事”，而宁愿称之为“能解决问题的事”。）

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阿：这是什么事呢？

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苏：教育和培养。因为，如果人们受了良好的教育就能成为事理通达的人，那么他们就很容易明白，处理所有这些事情还有我此刻没有谈及的别的一些事情，例如婚姻嫁娶以及生儿育女——处理所有这一切都应当本着一个原则，即如俗话所说的，“朋友之间不分彼此”。

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阿：这大概是最好的办法了。

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苏：而且，国家一旦很好地动起来，就会象轮子转动一般，以越来越快的速度前进。因为良好的培养和教育造成良好的身体素质，良好的身体素质再接受良好的教育，产生出比前代更好的体质，这除了有利于别的目的外，也有利于人种的进步，象其他动物一样。

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阿：有道理。

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苏：因此扼要地说，我国的领袖们必须坚持注视着这一点，不让国家在不知不觉中败坏了。他们必须始终守护着它，不让体育和音乐翻新，违犯了固有的秩序。他们必须竭力守护着。当有人说，人们最爱听

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歌手们吟唱最新的歌①

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①史诗《奥德赛》Ⅰ，35──

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时，他们为担心，人们可能会理解为，诗人称誉的不是新歌，而是新花样的歌，所以领袖们自己应当不去称赞这种东西，而且应当指出这不是诗人的用意所在。因为音乐的任何翻新对整个国家是充满危险的，应该预先防止。因为，若非国家根本大法有所变动，音乐风貌是无论如何也不会改变的。这是戴蒙这样说的，我相信他这话。

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阿：是的。你也把我算作赞成这话的一个吧。

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苏：因此，我们的护卫者看来必须就在这里——在音乐里——布防设哨。

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阿：这种非法①的确容易悄然潜入。

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苏：是的。因为它被认为不过是一种游戏，不成任何危害①。

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①比读《法律》篇797A—B，那里警告人们不要在孩子游戏中翻新。

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阿：别的害处是没有，只是它一点点地渗透，悄悄地流入人的性格和习惯，再以渐大的力量由此流入人与人之间的关系，再由人与人的关系肆无忌惮地流向法律和政治制度，苏格拉底呀，它终于破坏了①公私方面的一切。

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①比读389D。

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苏：呀！是这样吗？

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阿：我相信是这样。

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苏：那么，如我们开头说的，我们的孩子必须参加符合法律精神的正当游戏。因为，如果游戏是不符合法律的游戏，孩子们也会成为违反法律的孩子，他们就不可能成为品行端正的守法公民了。

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阿：肯定如此。

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苏：因此，如果孩子们从一开始做游戏起就能借助于音乐养成遵守法律的精神，而这种守法精神又反过来反对不法的娱乐，那么这种守法精神就会处处支配着孩子们的行为，使他们健康建长。一旦国家发生什么变革，他们就会起而恢复固有的秩序。

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阿：确实是的。

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①非法（παραLBμC′α），除了道德上的涵义外（537E）还暗示音乐中的非法的翻新。

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苏：孩子们在这样的教育中长大成人，他们就能自己去重新发现那些已被前辈全都废弃了的看起来微不足道的规矩。

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阿：哪种规矩？

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苏：例如下述这些：年轻人看到年长者来到应该肃静；要起立让坐以示敬意；对父母要尽孝道；还要注意发式、袍服、鞋履；总之体态举止，以及其他诸如此类，都要注意。你或许有不同看法吧？

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阿：我和你看法相同。

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苏：但是，把这些规矩订成法律我认为是愚蠢的。因为，仅仅订成条款写在纸上，这种法律是得不到遵守的，也是不会持久的。

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阿：那么，它们怎么才能得到遵守呢？

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苏：阿得曼托斯啊，一个人从小所受的教育把他往哪里引导，却能决定他后来往哪里走。“同声相应，同气相求”——

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事情不总是这样吗？

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阿：的确是的。

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苏：直到达到一个重大的结果，这个结果也许是好的，也许是不好的。

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阿：当然啰。

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苏：由于这些理由，因此我不想再把这种事情制订成法律了。

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阿：理由充足。

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苏：但是，关于商务，人们在市场上的相互交易，如果你愿意的话，还有，和手工工人的契约，关于侮辱和伤害的诉讼，关于民事案件的起诉和陪审员的遴选这些问题，还可能有人会提出关于市场上和海港上必须征收的赋税问题。总之，市场的、公安的、海港的规则，以及其他诸如此类的事情，我的天哪，是不是都得我们来一一订成法律呢？

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阿：不，对于优秀的人，把这么许多的法律条文强加给他们是不恰当的。需要什么规则，大多数他们自己会容易发现的。

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苏：对，朋友，只要神明保佑他们能保存住我们已给他们订定的那些法律，也就可以了。

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阿：否则的话，他们将永无止境地从事制订这类繁琐的法律，并为使它们达到完善把自己的一生都用来修改这种法律。

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苏：你的意思是说，这种人的生活很象那些纵欲无度而成痼疾的人不愿抛弃对健康不利的生活制度一样。

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阿：很对。

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苏：诚然，他们过着极乐生活。他们虽就医服药但一无效果，只有使疾病更复杂并加重：他们还一直指望有人能告诉他们一种灵丹妙药，使他们可以恢复健康。

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阿：有这种疾病的人大都这副样子。

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苏：是的，而且有趣的是，谁对他们说实话，告诉他们：

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如果他们不停止大吃大喝，寻花问柳，游手好闲，那么显而易见，无论药物还是烧灼法还是外科手术，是咒语还是符箓或别的任何治疗方法都治不好他们的病。——谁对他们这样说，他们就会把谁视为自己最可恶的敌人。

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阿：根本谈不上有趣，因为对说老实话的人生气是不好的。

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苏：我觉得你似乎对这种人没有好感。

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阿：的确没有好感。

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苏：如果一个国家也象我刚才说的那种人那样行事，你大概也不会称赞它的行为的。你没有看到有些国家的行为也是这样的吗？那里政治不良，但禁止公民触动整个国家制度，任何企图改变国家制度的要处以死刑；但同时不论什么人，只要他能极为热忱地为生活在这种不良政治秩序下的公民服务，为了讨好他们不惜奉承巴结，能窥探他们的心意，巧妙地满足他们的愿望，他们就把这种人视为优秀的有大智大慧的人并给予尊敬。

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阿：是的，我认为这种国家的行为和那种病人的行为是一样的，我无论如何也不能称赞它。

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苏：但是，对于那些愿为这种国家热诚服务的人又怎么样呢？你能不称赞他们的勇敢和不计个人利害的精神吗？

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阿：我称赞他们，只是不称赞其中那些缺乏自知之明的，因为有许多人称赞他们而竟以为自己真是一个政治家了的人们。

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苏：你的意思是什么呢？你不原谅他们一点吗？一个人不会量尺寸，另外有许多人也不会量尺寸，但他们告诉他说他身长四肘尺，你认为他能不相信这个关于他身长的说法吗？

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阿：他怎能不相信呢？

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苏：因此，你别对他们生气。因为，他们不也挺可怜吗？

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他们象我刚才说过的那样不停地制订和修改法律，总希望找到一个办法来杜绝商业上的以及我刚才所说的那些其他方面的弊端，他们不明白，他们这样做其实等于在砍九头蛇的脑袋①。

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①古希腊神话中的怪蛇，九个头，斩去一头又生两头。

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阿：的确，他们所做的正是这样的事。

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苏：因此我认为，真正的立法家不应当把力气花在法律和宪法方面做这一类的事情，不论是在政治秩序不好的国家还是在政治秩序良好的国家：因为在政治秩序不良的国家里法律和宪法是无济于事的，而在秩序良好的国家里法律和宪法有的不难设计出来，有的则可以从前人的法律条例中很方便地引申出来。

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阿：那么，在立法方面还有什么事要我们做的呢？

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苏：没什么还要我们做的，特尔斐的阿波罗还有事要做，他还有最重大最崇高最主要的法律要规定。

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阿：有哪些？

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苏：祭神的庙宇和仪式，以及对神、半神和英雄崇拜的其他形式，还有对死者的殡葬以及安魂退鬼所必须举行的仪式。这些事是我们所不知道的，作为一个城邦的建立者的我们，如果是有头脑的，也不会把有关这些事的法律委诸别的解释者而不委诸我们祖传的这位神祇的。因为，这位神乃是给全人类解释他们祖先的这些宗教律令的神祇，我们的祖先就是在这位大神的设在大地中央的脐石上的他的神座上传达他的解释的。

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阿：你说得很好，我们必须这样做。

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苏：因此，阿里斯同之子，你们的城邦已经可以说是建立起来了。接下来的事情就是要从某个地方弄到足够的灯光来照明，以便你自己，还要叫来你的兄弟，玻勒马霍斯以及其它朋友来帮你一起，寻找一下，看看我们是否能用什么办法发现，在城里什么地方有正义，在什么地方有不正义，两者之间区别又何在，以及想要得到幸福的人必须具有正义呢还是不正义，不论诸神和人们是否知道①。

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①367E。

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格劳孔：废话，你曾答应要亲自寻找正义的。你曾说过，你如果不想一切办法尽力帮助正义，就是不虔敬的人。

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苏：我确曾这样说过，我必须这样做，但你也应助我一臂之力。

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格：我们愿意。

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苏：因此我希望用如下的办法找到它。我认为我们的城邦假定已经正确地建立起来了，它就应是善的。

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格：必定的。

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苏：那么可想而知，这个国家一定是智慧的、勇敢的、节制的和正义的。

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格：这是很明白的。

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苏：因此，假定我们在这个国家里找到了这些性质之一种，那么，我们还没有找到的就是剩下的那几种性质了①。对吗？

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①这里是在玩弄逻辑上的推论。

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格：怎么不对呢？

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苏：正如另外有四个东西，假定我们要在某事物里寻求它们之中的某一个，而一开始便找到了它，那么这在我们就很满意了。但是，如果我们所找到的是另外三个，那么这也足以使我们知道我们所要寻求的那第四个了，因为它不可能是别的，而只能是剩下来的那一个。

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格：说得对。

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苏：那么，既然我们现在所要寻求的东西也是四个，我们不也可以用同样的方法来寻求它们吗？

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格：当然可以。

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苏：而且我在我们国家中清清楚楚看到的第一件东西便是智慧，而这个东西显得有点奇特之处。

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格：有什么奇特之处？

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苏：我觉得我们所描述的这个国家的确是智慧的，因为它是有很好的谋划的，不是吗？

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格：是的。

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苏：好的谋划这东西本身显然是一种知识。因为，其所以有好的谋划，乃是由于有知识而不是由于无知。

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格：显然是这样。

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苏：但是在一个国家里有着多种多样的知识。

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格：当然。

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苏：那么，一个国家之所以称为有智慧和有好的谋划，是不是由于它的木工知识呢？

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格：绝对不是。凭这个只能说这个国家有发达的木器制造业。

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苏：这样看来，一个国家不能因为有制造木器的知识，能谋划生产最好的木器，而被称为有智慧。

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格：的确不能。

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苏：那么，能不能因为它长于制造铜器或其它这一类东西而被称为有智慧呢？

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格：不能，根本不能。

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苏：我想，也不能凭农业生产的知识吧！因为这种知识只能使它有农业发达之名。

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格：我想是这样。

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苏：在我们刚才建立起来的这个国家里，是不是有某些公民具有一种知识，这种知识并不是用来考虑国中某个特定方面事情的，而只是用来考虑整个国家大事，改进它的对内对外关系的呢？

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格：是的，有这么一种知识。

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苏：这是一种什么知识呢？它在哪里啊？

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格：这种知识是护国者的知识，这种知识是在我们方才称为严格意义下的护国者的那些统治者之中。

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苏：那么，具有这种知识的国家你打算用什么名称来称呼它呢？

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格：我要说它是深谋远虑的，真正有智慧的。

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苏：你想在我们的国家里究竟是哪一种人多？铜匠多呢，还是这种真正的护国者多呢？

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格：当然是铜匠多得多。

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苏：和各种具有某个特定方面知识而得到某种与职业有关的名称的人相比，这种护国者是不是最少呢？

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格：少得多。

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苏：由此可见，一个按照自然①建立起来的国家，其所以整个被说成是有智慧的，乃是由于它的人数最少的那个部分和这个部分中的最小一部分，这些领导着和统治着它的人们所具有的知识。并且，如所知道的，唯有这种知识才配称为智慧，而能够具有这种知识的人按照自然规律总是最少数。

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格：再对不过。

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①“自然”以及后文中用到的“本性”、“天性”，在希腊文中是一个词，也是一个意思。

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苏：现在我们多少总算是找到了我们的四种性质的一种了，并且也找到了它在这个国家里的所在了。

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格：不管怎么说，我觉得它是被充分地找到了。

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苏：接下去，要发现勇敢本身和这个给国家以勇敢名称的东西究竟处在国家的哪一部分，应当是并不困难的吧！

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格：你为什么这么说呢？

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苏：因为凡是说起一个国家懦弱或勇敢的人，除掉想到为了保卫它而上战场打仗的那一部分人之外，还能想到别的哪一部分人呢？

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格：没有人会想着别的部分人的。

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苏：我想，其所以这样，就是因为国家的这种性质不能视其他人的勇敢或懦弱而定。

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格：是的，是不能视其他人的勇敢与否而定的。

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苏：因此，国家是因自己的某一部分人的勇敢而被说成勇敢的。是因这一部分人具有一种能力，即无论在什么情形之下他们都保持着关于可怕事物的信念，相信他们应当害怕的事情乃是立法者在教育中告诫他们的那些事情以及那一类的事情。这不就是你所说的勇敢吗？

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格：我还没完全了解你的话，请你再说一说。

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苏：我的意思是说，勇敢就是一种保持。

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格：一种什么保持？

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苏：就是保持住法律通过教育所建立起来的关于可怕事物——即什么样的事情应当害怕——的信念。我所谓“无论在什么情形之下”的意思，是说勇敢的人无论处于苦恼还是快乐中，或处于欲望还是害怕中，都永远保持这种信念而不抛弃它。如果你想听听的话，我可以打个比方来解释一下。

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格：我想听听你的解释。

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苏：你知道，染色工人如果想要把羊毛染成紫色，首先总是从所有那许多颜色的羊毛中挑选质地白的一种，再进行辛勤仔细的预备性整理，以便这种白质羊毛可以最成功地染上颜色，只有经过了挑选和整理之后才着手染色。通过这样的过程染上颜色的东西颜色吃得牢。洗衣服的时候不管是否用碱水①，颜色都不会褪掉。但是，如果没有很好的准备整理，那么不论人们把东西染成紫色还是别的什么颜色，会发生什么样的情况你是可想而知的。

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①那个时候，希腊人多用草木灰泡成的碱性水洗衣服。

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Here Adeimantus interposed a question: How would you answer, Socrates, said he, if a person were to say that you are making these people miserable, and that they are the cause of their own unhappiness; the city in fact belongs to them, but they are none the better for it; whereas other men acquire lands, and build large and handsome houses, and have everything handsome about them, offering sacrifices to the gods on their own account, and practising hospitality; moreover, as you were saying just now, they have gold and silver, and all that is usual among the favourites of fortune; but our poor citizens are no better than mercenaries who are quartered in the city and are always mounting guard?

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Yes, I said; and you may add that they are only fed, and not paid in addition to their food, like other men; and therefore they cannot, if they would, take a journey of pleasure; they have no money to spend on a mistress or any other luxurious fancy, which, as the world goes, is thought to be happiness; and many other accusations of the same nature might be added.

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But, said he, let us suppose all this to be included in the charge.

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You mean to ask, I said, what will be our answer?

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Yes.

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If we proceed along the old path, my belief, I said, is that we shall find the answer. And our answer will be that, even as they are, our guardians may very likely be the happiest of men; but that our aim in founding the State was not the disproportionate happiness of any one class, but the greatest happiness of the whole; we thought that in a State which is ordered with a view to the good of the whole we should be most likely to find justice, and in the ill-ordered State injustice: and, having found them, we might then decide which of the two is the happier. At present, I take it, we are fashioning the happy State, not piecemeal, or with a view of making a few happy citizens, but as a whole; and by-and-by we will proceed to view the opposite kind of State. Suppose that we were painting a statue, and some one came up to us and said, Why do you not put the most beautiful colours on the most beautiful parts of the body—the eyes ought to be purple, but you have made them black—to him we might fairly answer, Sir, you would not surely have us beautify the eyes to such a degree that they are no longer eyes; consider rather whether, by giving this and the other features their due proportion, we make the whole beautiful. And so I say to you, do not compel us to assign to the guardians a sort of happiness which will make them anything but guardians; for we too can clothe our husbandmen in royal apparel, and set crowns of gold on their heads, and bid them till the ground as much as they like, and no more. Our potters also might be allowed to repose on couches, and feast by the fireside, passing round the winecup, while their wheel is conveniently at hand, and working at pottery only as much as they like; in this way we might make every class happy—and then, as you imagine, the whole State would be happy. But do not put this idea into our heads; for, if we listen to you, the husbandman will be no longer a husbandman, the potter will cease to be a potter, and no one will have the character of any distinct class in the State. Now this is not of much consequence where the corruption of society, and pretension to be what you are not, is confined to cobblers; but when the guardians of the laws and of the government are only seeming and not real guardians, then see how they turn the State upside down; and on the other hand they alone have the power of giving order and happiness to the State. We mean our guardians to be true saviours and not the destroyers of the State, whereas our opponent is thinking of peasants at a festival, who are enjoying a life of revelry, not of citizens who are doing their duty to the State. But, if so, we mean different things, and he is speaking of something which is not a State. And therefore we must consider whether in appointing our guardians we would look to their greatest happiness individually, or whether this principle of happiness does not rather reside in the State as a whole. But if the latter be the truth, then the guardians and auxiliaries, and all others equally with them, must be compelled or induced to do their own work in the best way. And thus the whole State will grow up in a noble order, and the several classes will receive the proportion of happiness which nature assigns to them.

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I think that you are quite right.

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I wonder whether you will agree with another remark which occurs to me.

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What may that be?

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There seem to be two causes of the deterioration of the arts.

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What are they?

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Wealth, I said, and poverty.

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How do they act?

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The process is as follows: When a potter becomes rich, will he, think you, any longer take the same pains with his art?

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Certainly not.

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He will grow more and more indolent and careless?

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Very true.

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And the result will be that he becomes a worse potter?

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Yes; he greatly deteriorates.

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But, on the other hand, if he has no money, and cannot provide himself with tools or instruments, he will not work equally well himself, nor will he teach his sons or apprentices to work equally well.

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Certainly not.

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Then, under the influence either of poverty or of wealth, workmen and their work are equally liable to degenerate?

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That is evident.

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Here, then, is a discovery of new evils, I said, against which the guardians will have to watch, or they will creep into the city unobserved.

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What evils?

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Wealth, I said, and poverty; the one is the parent of luxury and indolence, and the other of meanness and viciousness, and both of discontent.

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That is very true, he replied; but still I should like to know, Socrates, how our city will be able to go to war, especially against an enemy who is rich and powerful, if deprived of the sinews of war.

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There would certainly be a difficulty, I replied, in going to war with one such enemy; but there is no difficulty where there are two of them.

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How so? he asked.

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In the first place, I said, if we have to fight, our side will be trained warriors fighting against an army of rich men.

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That is true, he said.

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And do you not suppose, Adeimantus, that a single boxer who was perfect in his art would easily be a match for two stout and well-to-do gentlemen who were not boxers?

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Hardly, if they came upon him at once.

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What, now, I said, if he were able to run away and then turn and strike at the one who first came up? And supposing he were to do this several times under the heat of a scorching sun, might he not, being an expert, overturn more than one stout personage?

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Certainly, he said, there would be nothing wonderful in that.

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And yet rich men probably have a greater superiority in the science and practise of boxing than they have in military qualities.

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Likely enough.

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Then we may assume that our athletes will be able to fight with two or three times their own number?

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I agree with you, for I think you right.

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And suppose that, before engaging, our citizens send an embassy to one of the two cities, telling them what is the truth: Silver and gold we neither have nor are permitted to have, but you may; do you therefore come and help us in war, and take the spoils of the other city: Who, on hearing these words, would choose to fight against lean wiry dogs, rather than, with the dogs on their side, against fat and tender sheep?

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That is not likely; and yet there might be a danger to the poor State if the wealth of many States were to be gathered into one.

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But how simple of you to use the term State at all of any but our own!

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Why so?

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You ought to speak of other States in the plural number; not one of them is a city, but many cities, as they say in the game. For indeed any city, however small, is in fact divided into two, one the city of the poor, the other of the rich; these are at war with one another; and in either there are many smaller divisions, and you would be altogether beside the mark if you treated them all as a single State. But if you deal with them as many, and give the wealth or power or persons of the one to the others, you will always have a great many friends and not many enemies. And your State, while the wise order which has now been prescribed continues to prevail in her, will be the greatest of States, I do not mean to say in reputation or appearance, but in deed and truth, though she number not more than a thousand defenders. A single State which is her equal you will hardly find, either among Hellenes or barbarians, though many that appear to be as great and many times greater.

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That is most true, he said.

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And what, I said, will be the best limit for our rulers to fix when they are considering the size of the State and the amount of territory which they are to include, and beyond which they will not go?

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What limit would you propose?

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I would allow the State to increase so far as is consistent with unity; that, I think, is the proper limit.

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Very good, he said.

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Here then, I said, is another order which will have to be conveyed to our guardians: Let our city be accounted neither large nor small, but one and self-sufficing.

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And surely, said he, this is not a very severe order which we impose upon them.

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And the other, said I, of which we were speaking before is lighter still,—I mean the duty of degrading the offspring of the guardians when inferior, and of elevating into the rank of guardians the offspring of the lower classes, when naturally superior. The intention was, that, in the case of the citizens generally, each individual should be put to the use for which nature intended him, one to one work, and then every man would do his own business, and be one and not many; and so the whole city would be one and not many.

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Yes, he said; that is not so difficult.

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The regulations which we are prescribing, my good Adeimantus, are not, as might be supposed, a number of great principles, but trifles all, if care be taken, as the saying is, of the one great thing,—a thing, however, which I would rather call, not great, but sufficient for our purpose.

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What may that be? he asked.

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Education, I said, and nurture: If our citizens are well educated, and grow into sensible men, they will easily see their way through all these, as well as other matters which I omit; such, for example, as marriage, the possession of women and the procreation of children, which will all follow the general principle that friends have all things in common, as the proverb says.

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That will be the best way of settling them.

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Also, I said, the State, if once started well, moves with accumulating force like a wheel. For good nurture and education implant good constitutions, and these good constitutions taking root in a good education improve more and more, and this improvement affects the breed in man as in other animals.

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Very possibly, he said.

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Then to sum up: This is the point to which, above all, the attention of our rulers should be directed,—that music and gymnastic be preserved in their original form, and no innovation made. They must do their utmost to maintain them intact. And when any one says that mankind most regard

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'The newest song which the singers have,'

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they will be afraid that he may be praising, not new songs, but a new kind of song; and this ought not to be praised, or conceived to be the meaning of the poet; for any musical innovation is full of danger to the whole State, and ought to be prohibited. So Damon tells me, and I can quite believe him;—he says that when modes of music change, the fundamental laws of the State always change with them.

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Yes, said Adeimantus; and you may add my suffrage to Damon's and your own.

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Then, I said, our guardians must lay the foundations of their fortress in music?

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Yes, he said; the lawlessness of which you speak too easily steals in.

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Yes, I replied, in the form of amusement; and at first sight it appears harmless.

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Why, yes, he said, and there is no harm; were it not that little by little this spirit of licence, finding a home, imperceptibly penetrates into manners and customs; whence, issuing with greater force, it invades contracts between man and man, and from contracts goes on to laws and constitutions, in utter recklessness, ending at last, Socrates, by an overthrow of all rights, private as well as public.

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Is that true? I said.

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That is my belief, he replied.

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Then, as I was saying, our youth should be trained from the first in a stricter system, for if amusements become lawless, and the youths themselves become lawless, they can never grow up into well-conducted and virtuous citizens.

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Very true, he said.

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And when they have made a good beginning in play, and by the help of music have gained the habit of good order, then this habit of order, in a manner how unlike the lawless play of the others! will accompany them in all their actions and be a principle of growth to them, and if there be any fallen places in the State will raise them up again.

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Very true, he said.

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Thus educated, they will invent for themselves any lesser rules which their predecessors have altogether neglected.

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What do you mean?

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I mean such things as these:—when the young are to be silent before their elders; how they are to show respect to them by standing and making them sit; what honour is due to parents; what garments or shoes are to be worn; the mode of dressing the hair; deportment and manners in general. You would agree with me?

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Yes.

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But there is, I think, small wisdom in legislating about such matters,—I doubt if it is ever done; nor are any precise written enactments about them likely to be lasting.

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Impossible.

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It would seem, Adeimantus, that the direction in which education starts a man, will determine his future life. Does not like always attract like?

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To be sure.

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Until some one rare and grand result is reached which may be good, and may be the reverse of good?

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That is not to be denied.

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And for this reason, I said, I shall not attempt to legislate further about them.

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Naturally enough, he replied.

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Well, and about the business of the agora, and the ordinary dealings between man and man, or again about agreements with artisans; about insult and injury, or the commencement of actions, and the appointment of juries, what would you say? there may also arise questions about any impositions and exactions of market and harbour dues which may be required, and in general about the regulations of markets, police, harbours, and the like. But, oh heavens! shall we condescend to legislate on any of these particulars?

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I think, he said, that there is no need to impose laws about them on good men; what regulations are necessary they will find out soon enough for themselves.

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Yes, I said, my friend, if God will only preserve to them the laws which we have given them.

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And without divine help, said Adeimantus, they will go on for ever making and mending their laws and their lives in the hope of attaining perfection.

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You would compare them, I said, to those invalids who, having no self-restraint, will not leave off their habits of intemperance?

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Exactly.

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Yes, I said; and what a delightful life they lead! they are always doctoring and increasing and complicating their disorders, and always fancying that they will be cured by any nostrum which anybody advises them to try.

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Such cases are very common, he said, with invalids of this sort.

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Yes, I replied; and the charming thing is that they deem him their worst enemy who tells them the truth, which is simply that, unless they give up eating and drinking and wenching and idling, neither drug nor cautery nor spell nor amulet nor any other remedy will avail.

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Charming! he replied. I see nothing charming in going into a passion with a man who tells you what is right.

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These gentlemen, I said, do not seem to be in your good graces.

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Assuredly not.

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Nor would you praise the behaviour of States which act like the men whom I was just now describing. For are there not ill-ordered States in which the citizens are forbidden under pain of death to alter the constitution; and yet he who most sweetly courts those who live under this regime and indulges them and fawns upon them and is skilful in anticipating and gratifying their humours is held to be a great and good statesman—do not these States resemble the persons whom I was describing?

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Yes, he said; the States are as bad as the men; and I am very far from praising them.

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But do you not admire, I said, the coolness and dexterity of these ready ministers of political corruption?

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Yes, he said, I do; but not of all of them, for there are some whom the applause of the multitude has deluded into the belief that they are really statesmen, and these are not much to be admired.

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What do you mean? I said; you should have more feeling for them. When a man cannot measure, and a great many others who cannot measure declare that he is four cubits high, can he help believing what they say?

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Nay, he said, certainly not in that case.

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Well, then, do not be angry with them; for are they not as good as a play, trying their hand at paltry reforms such as I was describing; they are always fancying that by legislation they will make an end of frauds in contracts, and the other rascalities which I was mentioning, not knowing that they are in reality cutting off the heads of a hydra?

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Yes, he said; that is just what they are doing.

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I conceive, I said, that the true legislator will not trouble himself with this class of enactments whether concerning laws or the constitution either in an ill-ordered or in a well-ordered State; for in the former they are quite useless, and in the latter there will be no difficulty in devising them; and many of them will naturally flow out of our previous regulations.

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What, then, he said, is still remaining to us of the work of legislation?

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Nothing to us, I replied; but to Apollo, the God of Delphi, there remains the ordering of the greatest and noblest and chiefest things of all.

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Which are they? he said.

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The institution of temples and sacrifices, and the entire service of gods, demigods, and heroes; also the ordering of the repositories of the dead, and the rites which have to be observed by him who would propitiate the inhabitants of the world below. These are matters of which we are ignorant ourselves, and as founders of a city we should be unwise in trusting them to any interpreter but our ancestral deity. He is the god who sits in the centre, on the navel of the earth, and he is the interpreter of religion to all mankind.

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You are right, and we will do as you propose.

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But where, amid all this, is justice? son of Ariston, tell me where. Now that our city has been made habitable, light a candle and search, and get your brother and Polemarchus and the rest of our friends to help, and let us see where in it we can discover justice and where injustice, and in what they differ from one another, and which of them the man who would be happy should have for his portion, whether seen or unseen by gods and men.

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Nonsense, said Glaucon: did you not promise to search yourself, saying that for you not to help justice in her need would be an impiety?

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I do not deny that I said so, and as you remind me, I will be as good as my word; but you must join.

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We will, he replied.

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Well, then, I hope to make the discovery in this way: I mean to begin with the assumption that our State, if rightly ordered, is perfect.

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That is most certain.

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And being perfect, is therefore wise and valiant and temperate and just.

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That is likewise clear.

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And whichever of these qualities we find in the State, the one which is not found will be the residue?

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Very good.

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If there were four things, and we were searching for one of them, wherever it might be, the one sought for might be known to us from the first, and there would be no further trouble; or we might know the other three first, and then the fourth would clearly be the one left.

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Very true, he said.

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And is not a similar method to be pursued about the virtues, which are also four in number?

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Clearly.

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First among the virtues found in the State, wisdom comes into view, and in this I detect a certain peculiarity.

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What is that?

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The State which we have been describing is said to be wise as being good in counsel?

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Very true.

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And good counsel is clearly a kind of knowledge, for not by ignorance, but by knowledge, do men counsel well?

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Clearly.

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And the kinds of knowledge in a State are many and diverse?

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Of course.

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There is the knowledge of the carpenter; but is that the sort of knowledge which gives a city the title of wise and good in counsel?

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Certainly not; that would only give a city the reputation of skill in carpentering.

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Then a city is not to be called wise because possessing a knowledge which counsels for the best about wooden implements?

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Certainly not.

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Nor by reason of a knowledge which advises about brazen pots, I said, nor as possessing any other similar knowledge?

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Not by reason of any of them, he said.

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Nor yet by reason of a knowledge which cultivates the earth; that would give the city the name of agricultural?

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Yes.

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Well, I said, and is there any knowledge in our recently-founded State among any of the citizens which advises, not about any particular thing in the State, but about the whole, and considers how a State can best deal with itself and with other States?

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There certainly is.

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And what is this knowledge, and among whom is it found? I asked.

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It is the knowledge of the guardians, he replied, and is found among those whom we were just now describing as perfect guardians.

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And what is the name which the city derives from the possession of this sort of knowledge?

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The name of good in counsel and truly wise.

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And will there be in our city more of these true guardians or more smiths?

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The smiths, he replied, will be far more numerous.

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Will not the guardians be the smallest of all the classes who receive a name from the profession of some kind of knowledge?

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Much the smallest.

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And so by reason of the smallest part or class, and of the knowledge which resides in this presiding and ruling part of itself, the whole State, being thus constituted according to nature, will be wise; and this, which has the only knowledge worthy to be called wisdom, has been ordained by nature to be of all classes the least.

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Most true.

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Thus, then, I said, the nature and place in the State of one of the four virtues has somehow or other been discovered.

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And, in my humble opinion, very satisfactorily discovered, he replied.

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Again, I said, there is no difficulty in seeing the nature of courage, and in what part that quality resides which gives the name of courageous to the State.

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How do you mean?

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Why, I said, every one who calls any State courageous or cowardly, will be thinking of the part which fights and goes out to war on the State's behalf.

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No one, he replied, would ever think of any other.

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The rest of the citizens may be courageous or may be cowardly, but their courage or cowardice will not, as I conceive, have the effect of making the city either the one or the other.

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Certainly not.

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The city will be courageous in virtue of a portion of herself which preserves under all circumstances that opinion about the nature of things to be feared and not to be feared in which our legislator educated them; and this is what you term courage.

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I should like to hear what you are saying once more, for I do not think that I perfectly understand you.

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I mean that courage is a kind of salvation.

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Salvation of what?

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Of the opinion respecting things to be feared, what they are and of what nature, which the law implants through education; and I mean by the words 'under all circumstances' to intimate that in pleasure or in pain, or under the influence of desire or fear, a man preserves, and does not lose this opinion. Shall I give you an illustration?

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If you please.

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You know, I said, that dyers, when they want to dye wool for making the true sea-purple, begin by selecting their white colour first; this they prepare and dress with much care and pains, in order that the white ground may take the purple hue in full perfection. The dyeing then proceeds; and whatever is dyed in this manner becomes a fast colour, and no washing either with lyes or without them can take away the bloom. But, when the ground has not been duly prepared, you will have noticed how poor is the look either of purple or of any other colour.

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Yes, he said; I know that they have a washed-out and ridiculous appearance.

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Then now, I said, you will understand what our object was in selecting our soldiers, and educating them in music and gymnastic; we were contriving influences which would prepare them to take the dye of the laws in perfection, and the colour of their opinion about dangers and of every other opinion was to be indelibly fixed by their nurture and training, not to be washed away by such potent lyes as pleasure—mightier agent far in washing the soul than any soda or lye; or by sorrow, fear, and desire, the mightiest of all other solvents. And this sort of universal saving power of true opinion in conformity with law about real and false dangers I call and maintain to be courage, unless you disagree.

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But I agree, he replied; for I suppose that you mean to exclude mere uninstructed courage, such as that of a wild beast or of a slave—this, in your opinion, is not the courage which the law ordains, and ought to have another name.

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Most certainly.

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Then I may infer courage to be such as you describe?

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Why, yes, said I, you may, and if you add the words 'of a citizen,' you will not be far wrong;—hereafter, if you like, we will carry the examination further, but at present we are seeking not for courage but justice; and for the purpose of our enquiry we have said enough.

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You are right, he replied.

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Two virtues remain to be discovered in the State—first, temperance, and then justice which is the end of our search.

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Very true.

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Now, can we find justice without troubling ourselves about temperance?

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I do not know how that can be accomplished, he said, nor do I desire that justice should be brought to light and temperance lost sight of; and therefore I wish that you would do me the favour of considering temperance first.

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Certainly, I replied, I should not be justified in refusing your request.

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Then consider, he said.

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Yes, I replied; I will; and as far as I can at present see, the virtue of temperance has more of the nature of harmony and symphony than the preceding.

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How so? he asked.

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Temperance, I replied, is the ordering or controlling of certain pleasures and desires; this is curiously enough implied in the saying of 'a man being his own master;' and other traces of the same notion may be found in language.

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No doubt, he said.

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There is something ridiculous in the expression 'master of himself;' for the master is also the servant and the servant the master; and in all these modes of speaking the same person is denoted.

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Certainly.

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The meaning is, I believe, that in the human soul there is a better and also a worse principle; and when the better has the worse under control, then a man is said to be master of himself; and this is a term of praise: but when, owing to evil education or association, the better principle, which is also the smaller, is overwhelmed by the greater mass of the worse—in this case he is blamed and is called the slave of self and unprincipled.

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Yes, there is reason in that.

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And now, I said, look at our newly-created State, and there you will find one of these two conditions realized; for the State, as you will acknowledge, may be justly called master of itself, if the words 'temperance' and 'self-mastery' truly express the rule of the better part over the worse.

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Yes, he said, I see that what you say is true.

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Let me further note that the manifold and complex pleasures and desires and pains are generally found in children and women and servants, and in the freemen so called who are of the lowest and more numerous class.

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Certainly, he said.

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Whereas the simple and moderate desires which follow reason, and are under the guidance of mind and true opinion, are to be found only in a few, and those the best born and best educated.

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Very true.

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These two, as you may perceive, have a place in our State; and the meaner desires of the many are held down by the virtuous desires and wisdom of the few.

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That I perceive, he said.

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Then if there be any city which may be described as master of its own pleasures and desires, and master of itself, ours may claim such a designation?

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Certainly, he replied.

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It may also be called temperate, and for the same reasons?

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Yes.

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And if there be any State in which rulers and subjects will be agreed as to the question who are to rule, that again will be our State?

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Undoubtedly.

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And the citizens being thus agreed among themselves, in which class will temperance be found—in the rulers or in the subjects?

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In both, as I should imagine, he replied.

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Do you observe that we were not far wrong in our guess that temperance was a sort of harmony?

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Why so?

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Why, because temperance is unlike courage and wisdom, each of which resides in a part only, the one making the State wise and the other valiant; not so temperance, which extends to the whole, and runs through all the notes of the scale, and produces a harmony of the weaker and the stronger and the middle class, whether you suppose them to be stronger or weaker in wisdom or power or numbers or wealth, or anything else. Most truly then may we deem temperance to be the agreement of the naturally superior and inferior, as to the right to rule of either, both in states and individuals.

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I entirely agree with you.

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And so, I said, we may consider three out of the four virtues to have been discovered in our State. The last of those qualities which make a state virtuous must be justice, if we only knew what that was.

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The inference is obvious.

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The time then has arrived, Glaucon, when, like huntsmen, we should surround the cover, and look sharp that justice does not steal away, and pass out of sight and escape us; for beyond a doubt she is somewhere in this country: watch therefore and strive to catch a sight of her, and if you see her first, let me know.

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Would that I could! but you should regard me rather as a follower who has just eyes enough to see what you show him—that is about as much as I am good for.

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Offer up a prayer with me and follow.

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I will, but you must show me the way.

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Here is no path, I said, and the wood is dark and perplexing; still we must push on.

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Let us push on.

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Here I saw something: Halloo! I said, I begin to perceive a track, and I believe that the quarry will not escape.

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Good news, he said.

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Truly, I said, we are stupid fellows.

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Why so?

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Why, my good sir, at the beginning of our enquiry, ages ago, there was justice tumbling out at our feet, and we never saw her; nothing could be more ridiculous. Like people who go about looking for what they have in their hands—that was the way with us—we looked not at what we were seeking, but at what was far off in the distance; and therefore, I suppose, we missed her.

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What do you mean?

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I mean to say that in reality for a long time past we have been talking of justice, and have failed to recognise her.

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I grow impatient at the length of your exordium.

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Well then, tell me, I said, whether I am right or not: You remember the original principle which we were always laying down at the foundation of the State, that one man should practise one thing only, the thing to which his nature was best adapted;—now justice is this principle or a part of it.

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Yes, we often said that one man should do one thing only.

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Further, we affirmed that justice was doing one's own business, and not being a busybody; we said so again and again, and many others have said the same to us.

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Yes, we said so.

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Then to do one's own business in a certain way may be assumed to be justice. Can you tell me whence I derive this inference?

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I cannot, but I should like to be told.

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Because I think that this is the only virtue which remains in the State when the other virtues of temperance and courage and wisdom are abstracted; and, that this is the ultimate cause and condition of the existence of all of them, and while remaining in them is also their preservative; and we were saying that if the three were discovered by us, justice would be the fourth or remaining one.

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That follows of necessity.

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If we are asked to determine which of these four qualities by its presence contributes most to the excellence of the State, whether the agreement of rulers and subjects, or the preservation in the soldiers of the opinion which the law ordains about the true nature of dangers, or wisdom and watchfulness in the rulers, or whether this other which I am mentioning, and which is found in children and women, slave and freeman, artisan, ruler, subject,—the quality, I mean, of every one doing his own work, and not being a busybody, would claim the palm—the question is not so easily answered.

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Certainly, he replied, there would be a difficulty in saying which.

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Then the power of each individual in the State to do his own work appears to compete with the other political virtues, wisdom, temperance, courage.

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Yes, he said.

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And the virtue which enters into this competition is justice?

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Exactly.

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Let us look at the question from another point of view: Are not the rulers in a State those to whom you would entrust the office of determining suits at law?

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Certainly.

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And are suits decided on any other ground but that a man may neither take what is another's, nor be deprived of what is his own?

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Yes; that is their principle.

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Which is a just principle?

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Yes.

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Then on this view also justice will be admitted to be the having and doing what is a man's own, and belongs to him?

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Very true.

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Think, now, and say whether you agree with me or not. Suppose a carpenter to be doing the business of a cobbler, or a cobbler of a carpenter; and suppose them to exchange their implements or their duties, or the same person to be doing the work of both, or whatever be the change; do you think that any great harm would result to the State?

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Not much.

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But when the cobbler or any other man whom nature designed to be a trader, having his heart lifted up by wealth or strength or the number of his followers, or any like advantage, attempts to force his way into the class of warriors, or a warrior into that of legislators and guardians, for which he is unfitted, and either to take the implements or the duties of the other; or when one man is trader, legislator, and warrior all in one, then I think you will agree with me in saying that this interchange and this meddling of one with another is the ruin of the State.

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Most true.

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Seeing then, I said, that there are three distinct classes, any meddling of one with another, or the change of one into another, is the greatest harm to the State, and may be most justly termed evil-doing?

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Precisely.

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And the greatest degree of evil-doing to one's own city would be termed by you injustice?

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Certainly.

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This then is injustice; and on the other hand when the trader, the auxiliary, and the guardian each do their own business, that is justice, and will make the city just.

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I agree with you.

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We will not, I said, be over-positive as yet; but if, on trial, this conception of justice be verified in the individual as well as in the State, there will be no longer any room for doubt; if it be not verified, we must have a fresh enquiry. First let us complete the old investigation, which we began, as you remember, under the impression that, if we could previously examine justice on the larger scale, there would be less difficulty in discerning her in the individual. That larger example appeared to be the State, and accordingly we constructed as good a one as we could, knowing well that in the good State justice would be found. Let the discovery which we made be now applied to the individual—if they agree, we shall be satisfied; or, if there be a difference in the individual, we will come back to the State and have another trial of the theory. The friction of the two when rubbed together may possibly strike a light in which justice will shine forth, and the vision which is then revealed we will fix in our souls.

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That will be in regular course; let us do as you say.

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I proceeded to ask: When two things, a greater and less, are called by the same name, are they like or unlike in so far as they are called the same?

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Like, he replied.

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The just man then, if we regard the idea of justice only, will be like the just State?

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He will.

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And a State was thought by us to be just when the three classes in the State severally did their own business; and also thought to be temperate and valiant and wise by reason of certain other affections and qualities of these same classes?

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True, he said.

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And so of the individual; we may assume that he has the same three principles in his own soul which are found in the State; and he may be rightly described in the same terms, because he is affected in the same manner?

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Certainly, he said.

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Once more then, O my friend, we have alighted upon an easy question—whether the soul has these three principles or not?

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An easy question! Nay, rather, Socrates, the proverb holds that hard is the good.

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Very true, I said; and I do not think that the method which we are employing is at all adequate to the accurate solution of this question; the true method is another and a longer one. Still we may arrive at a solution not below the level of the previous enquiry.

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May we not be satisfied with that? he said;—under the circumstances, I am quite content.

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I too, I replied, shall be extremely well satisfied.

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Then faint not in pursuing the speculation, he said.

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Must we not acknowledge, I said, that in each of us there are the same principles and habits which there are in the State; and that from the individual they pass into the State?—how else can they come there? Take the quality of passion or spirit;—it would be ridiculous to imagine that this quality, when found in States, is not derived from the individuals who are supposed to possess it, e.g. the Thracians, Scythians, and in general the northern nations; and the same may be said of the love of knowledge, which is the special characteristic of our part of the world, or of the love of money, which may, with equal truth, be attributed to the Phoenicians and Egyptians.

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Exactly so, he said.

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There is no difficulty in understanding this.

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None whatever.

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But the question is not quite so easy when we proceed to ask whether these principles are three or one; whether, that is to say, we learn with one part of our nature, are angry with another, and with a third part desire the satisfaction of our natural appetites; or whether the whole soul comes into play in each sort of action—to determine that is the difficulty.

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Yes, he said; there lies the difficulty.

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Then let us now try and determine whether they are the same or different.

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How can we? he asked.

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I replied as follows: The same thing clearly cannot act or be acted upon in the same part or in relation to the same thing at the same time, in contrary ways; and therefore whenever this contradiction occurs in things apparently the same, we know that they are really not the same, but different.

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Good.

283

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For example, I said, can the same thing be at rest and in motion at the same time in the same part?

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Impossible.

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Still, I said, let us have a more precise statement of terms, lest we should hereafter fall out by the way. Imagine the case of a man who is standing and also moving his hands and his head, and suppose a person to say that one and the same person is in motion and at rest at the same moment—to such a mode of speech we should object, and should rather say that one part of him is in motion while another is at rest.

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Very true.

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And suppose the objector to refine still further, and to draw the nice distinction that not only parts of tops, but whole tops, when they spin round with their pegs fixed on the spot, are at rest and in motion at the same time (and he may say the same of anything which revolves in the same spot), his objection would not be admitted by us, because in such cases things are not at rest and in motion in the same parts of themselves; we should rather say that they have both an axis and a circumference, and that the axis stands still, for there is no deviation from the perpendicular; and that the circumference goes round. But if, while revolving, the axis inclines either to the right or left, forwards or backwards, then in no point of view can they be at rest.

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That is the correct mode of describing them, he replied.

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Then none of these objections will confuse us, or incline us to believe that the same thing at the same time, in the same part or in relation to the same thing, can act or be acted upon in contrary ways.

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Certainly not, according to my way of thinking.

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Yet, I said, that we may not be compelled to examine all such objections, and prove at length that they are untrue, let us assume their absurdity, and go forward on the understanding that hereafter, if this assumption turn out to be untrue, all the consequences which follow shall be withdrawn.

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Yes, he said, that will be the best way.

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Well, I said, would you not allow that assent and dissent, desire and aversion, attraction and repulsion, are all of them opposites, whether they are regarded as active or passive (for that makes no difference in the fact of their opposition)?

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Yes, he said, they are opposites.

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Well, I said, and hunger and thirst, and the desires in general, and again willing and wishing,—all these you would refer to the classes already mentioned. You would say—would you not?—that the soul of him who desires is seeking after the object of his desire; or that he is drawing to himself the thing which he wishes to possess: or again, when a person wants anything to be given him, his mind, longing for the realization of his desire, intimates his wish to have it by a nod of assent, as if he had been asked a question?

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Very true.

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And what would you say of unwillingness and dislike and the absence of desire; should not these be referred to the opposite class of repulsion and rejection?

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Certainly.

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Admitting this to be true of desire generally, let us suppose a particular class of desires, and out of these we will select hunger and thirst, as they are termed, which are the most obvious of them?

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Let us take that class, he said.

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The object of one is food, and of the other drink?

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Yes.

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And here comes the point: is not thirst the desire which the soul has of drink, and of drink only; not of drink qualified by anything else; for example, warm or cold, or much or little, or, in a word, drink of any particular sort: but if the thirst be accompanied by heat, then the desire is of cold drink; or, if accompanied by cold, then of warm drink; or, if the thirst be excessive, then the drink which is desired will be excessive; or, if not great, the quantity of drink will also be small: but thirst pure and simple will desire drink pure and simple, which is the natural satisfaction of thirst, as food is of hunger?

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Yes, he said; the simple desire is, as you say, in every case of the simple object, and the qualified desire of the qualified object.

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But here a confusion may arise; and I should wish to guard against an opponent starting up and saying that no man desires drink only, but good drink, or food only, but good food; for good is the universal object of desire, and thirst being a desire, will necessarily be thirst after good drink; and the same is true of every other desire.

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Yes, he replied, the opponent might have something to say.

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Nevertheless I should still maintain, that of relatives some have a quality attached to either term of the relation; others are simple and have their correlatives simple.

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I do not know what you mean.

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Well, you know of course that the greater is relative to the less?

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Certainly.

311

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And the much greater to the much less?

312

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Yes.

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And the sometime greater to the sometime less, and the greater that is to be to the less that is to be?

314

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Certainly, he said.

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And so of more and less, and of other correlative terms, such as the double and the half, or again, the heavier and the lighter, the swifter and the slower; and of hot and cold, and of any other relatives;—is not this true of all of them?

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Yes.

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And does not the same principle hold in the sciences? The object of science is knowledge (assuming that to be the true definition), but the object of a particular science is a particular kind of knowledge; I mean, for example, that the science of house-building is a kind of knowledge which is defined and distinguished from other kinds and is therefore termed architecture.

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Certainly.

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Because it has a particular quality which no other has?

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Yes.

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And it has this particular quality because it has an object of a particular kind; and this is true of the other arts and sciences?

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Yes.

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Now, then, if I have made myself clear, you will understand my original meaning in what I said about relatives. My meaning was, that if one term of a relation is taken alone, the other is taken alone; if one term is qualified, the other is also qualified. I do not mean to say that relatives may not be disparate, or that the science of health is healthy, or of disease necessarily diseased, or that the sciences of good and evil are therefore good and evil; but only that, when the term science is no longer used absolutely, but has a qualified object which in this case is the nature of health and disease, it becomes defined, and is hence called not merely science, but the science of medicine.

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I quite understand, and I think as you do.

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Would you not say that thirst is one of these essentially relative terms, having clearly a relation—

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Yes, thirst is relative to drink.

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And a certain kind of thirst is relative to a certain kind of drink; but thirst taken alone is neither of much nor little, nor of good nor bad, nor of any particular kind of drink, but of drink only?

328

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Certainly.

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Then the soul of the thirsty one, in so far as he is thirsty, desires only drink; for this he yearns and tries to obtain it?

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That is plain.

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And if you suppose something which pulls a thirsty soul away from drink, that must be different from the thirsty principle which draws him like a beast to drink; for, as we were saying, the same thing cannot at the same time with the same part of itself act in contrary ways about the same.

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Impossible.

333

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No more than you can say that the hands of the archer push and pull the bow at the same time, but what you say is that one hand pushes and the other pulls.

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Exactly so, he replied.

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And might a man be thirsty, and yet unwilling to drink?

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Yes, he said, it constantly happens.

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And in such a case what is one to say? Would you not say that there was something in the soul bidding a man to drink, and something else forbidding him, which is other and stronger than the principle which bids him?

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I should say so.

339

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And the forbidding principle is derived from reason, and that which bids and attracts proceeds from passion and disease?

340

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Clearly.

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Then we may fairly assume that they are two, and that they differ from one another; the one with which a man reasons, we may call the rational principle of the soul, the other, with which he loves and hungers and thirsts and feels the flutterings of any other desire, may be termed the irrational or appetitive, the ally of sundry pleasures and satisfactions?

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Yes, he said, we may fairly assume them to be different.

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Then let us finally determine that there are two principles existing in the soul. And what of passion, or spirit? Is it a third, or akin to one of the preceding?

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I should be inclined to say—akin to desire.

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Well, I said, there is a story which I remember to have heard, and in which I put faith. The story is, that Leontius, the son of Aglaion, coming up one day from the Piraeus, under the north wall on the outside, observed some dead bodies lying on the ground at the place of execution. He felt a desire to see them, and also a dread and abhorrence of them; for a time he struggled and covered his eyes, but at length the desire got the better of him; and forcing them open, he ran up to the dead bodies, saying, Look, ye wretches, take your fill of the fair sight.

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I have heard the story myself, he said.

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The moral of the tale is, that anger at times goes to war with desire, as though they were two distinct things.

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Yes; that is the meaning, he said.

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And are there not many other cases in which we observe that when a man's desires violently prevail over his reason, he reviles himself, and is angry at the violence within him, and that in this struggle, which is like the struggle of factions in a State, his spirit is on the side of his reason;—but for the passionate or spirited element to take part with the desires when reason decides that she should not be opposed, is a sort of thing which I believe that you never observed occurring in yourself, nor, as I should imagine, in any one else?

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Certainly not.

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Suppose that a man thinks he has done a wrong to another, the nobler he is the less able is he to feel indignant at any suffering, such as hunger, or cold, or any other pain which the injured person may inflict upon him—these he deems to be just, and, as I say, his anger refuses to be excited by them.

352

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True, he said.

353

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But when he thinks that he is the sufferer of the wrong, then he boils and chafes, and is on the side of what he believes to be justice; and because he suffers hunger or cold or other pain he is only the more determined to persevere and conquer. His noble spirit will not be quelled until he either slays or is slain; or until he hears the voice of the shepherd, that is, reason, bidding his dog bark no more.

354

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The illustration is perfect, he replied; and in our State, as we were saying, the auxiliaries were to be dogs, and to hear the voice of the rulers, who are their shepherds.

355

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I perceive, I said, that you quite understand me; there is, however, a further point which I wish you to consider.

356

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What point?

357

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You remember that passion or spirit appeared at first sight to be a kind of desire, but now we should say quite the contrary; for in the conflict of the soul spirit is arrayed on the side of the rational principle.

358

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Most assuredly.

359

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But a further question arises: Is passion different from reason also, or only a kind of reason; in which latter case, instead of three principles in the soul, there will only be two, the rational and the concupiscent; or rather, as the State was composed of three classes, traders, auxiliaries, counsellors, so may there not be in the individual soul a third element which is passion or spirit, and when not corrupted by bad education is the natural auxiliary of reason?

360

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Yes, he said, there must be a third.

361

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Yes, I replied, if passion, which has already been shown to be different from desire, turn out also to be different from reason.

362

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But that is easily proved:—We may observe even in young children that they are full of spirit almost as soon as they are born, whereas some of them never seem to attain to the use of reason, and most of them late enough.

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Excellent, I said, and you may see passion equally in brute animals, which is a further proof of the truth of what you are saying. And we may once more appeal to the words of Homer, which have been already quoted by us,

364

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'He smote his breast, and thus rebuked his soul,'

365

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for in this verse Homer has clearly supposed the power which reasons about the better and worse to be different from the unreasoning anger which is rebuked by it.

366

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Very true, he said.

367

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And so, after much tossing, we have reached land, and are fairly agreed that the same principles which exist in the State exist also in the individual, and that they are three in number.

368

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Exactly.

369

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Must we not then infer that the individual is wise in the same way, and in virtue of the same quality which makes the State wise?

370

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Certainly.

371

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Also that the same quality which constitutes courage in the State constitutes courage in the individual, and that both the State and the individual bear the same relation to all the other virtues?

372

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Assuredly.

373

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And the individual will be acknowledged by us to be just in the same way in which the State is just?

374

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That follows, of course.

375

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We cannot but remember that the justice of the State consisted in each of the three classes doing the work of its own class?

376

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We are not very likely to have forgotten, he said.

377

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We must recollect that the individual in whom the several qualities of his nature do their own work will be just, and will do his own work?

378

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Yes, he said, we must remember that too.

379

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And ought not the rational principle, which is wise, and has the care of the whole soul, to rule, and the passionate or spirited principle to be the subject and ally?

380

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Certainly.

381

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And, as we were saying, the united influence of music and gymnastic will bring them into accord, nerving and sustaining the reason with noble words and lessons, and moderating and soothing and civilizing the wildness of passion by harmony and rhythm?

382

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Quite true, he said.

383

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And these two, thus nurtured and educated, and having learned truly to know their own functions, will rule over the concupiscent, which in each of us is the largest part of the soul and by nature most insatiable of gain; over this they will keep guard, lest, waxing great and strong with the fulness of bodily pleasures, as they are termed, the concupiscent soul, no longer confined to her own sphere, should attempt to enslave and rule those who are not her natural-born subjects, and overturn the whole life of man?

384

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Very true, he said.

385

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Both together will they not be the best defenders of the whole soul and the whole body against attacks from without; the one counselling, and the other fighting under his leader, and courageously executing his commands and counsels?

386

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True.

387

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And he is to be deemed courageous whose spirit retains in pleasure and in pain the commands of reason about what he ought or ought not to fear?

388

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Right, he replied.

389

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And him we call wise who has in him that little part which rules, and which proclaims these commands; that part too being supposed to have a knowledge of what is for the interest of each of the three parts and of the whole?

390

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Assuredly.

391

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And would you not say that he is temperate who has these same elements in friendly harmony, in whom the one ruling principle of reason, and the two subject ones of spirit and desire are equally agreed that reason ought to rule, and do not rebel?

392

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Certainly, he said, that is the true account of temperance whether in the State or individual.

393

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And surely, I said, we have explained again and again how and by virtue of what quality a man will be just.

394

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That is very certain.

395

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And is justice dimmer in the individual, and is her form different, or is she the same which we found her to be in the State?

396

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There is no difference in my opinion, he said.

397

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Because, if any doubt is still lingering in our minds, a few commonplace instances will satisfy us of the truth of what I am saying.

398

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What sort of instances do you mean?

399

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If the case is put to us, must we not admit that the just State, or the man who is trained in the principles of such a State, will be less likely than the unjust to make away with a deposit of gold or silver? Would any one deny this?

400

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No one, he replied.

401

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Will the just man or citizen ever be guilty of sacrilege or theft, or treachery either to his friends or to his country?

402

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Never.

403

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Neither will he ever break faith where there have been oaths or agreements?

404

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Impossible.

405

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No one will be less likely to commit adultery, or to dishonour his father and mother, or to fail in his religious duties?

406

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No one.

407

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And the reason is that each part of him is doing its own business, whether in ruling or being ruled?

408

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Exactly so.

409

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Are you satisfied then that the quality which makes such men and such states is justice, or do you hope to discover some other?

410

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Not I, indeed.

411

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Then our dream has been realized; and the suspicion which we entertained at the beginning of our work of construction, that some divine power must have conducted us to a primary form of justice, has now been verified?

412

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Yes, certainly.

413

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And the division of labour which required the carpenter and the shoemaker and the rest of the citizens to be doing each his own business, and not another's, was a shadow of justice, and for that reason it was of use?

414

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Clearly.

415

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But in reality justice was such as we were describing, being concerned however, not with the outward man, but with the inward, which is the true self and concernment of man: for the just man does not permit the several elements within him to interfere with one another, or any of them to do the work of others,—he sets in order his own inner life, and is his own master and his own law, and at peace with himself; and when he has bound together the three principles within him, which may be compared to the higher, lower, and middle notes of the scale, and the intermediate intervals—when he has bound all these together, and is no longer many, but has become one entirely temperate and perfectly adjusted nature, then he proceeds to act, if he has to act, whether in a matter of property, or in the treatment of the body, or in some affair of politics or private business; always thinking and calling that which preserves and co-operates with this harmonious condition, just and good action, and the knowledge which presides over it, wisdom, and that which at any time impairs this condition, he will call unjust action, and the opinion which presides over it ignorance.

416

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You have said the exact truth, Socrates.

417

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Very good; and if we were to affirm that we had discovered the just man and the just State, and the nature of justice in each of them, we should not be telling a falsehood?

418

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Most certainly not.

419

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May we say so, then?

420

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Let us say so.

421

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And now, I said, injustice has to be considered.

422

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Clearly.

423

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Must not injustice be a strife which arises among the three principles—a meddlesomeness, and interference, and rising up of a part of the soul against the whole, an assertion of unlawful authority, which is made by a rebellious subject against a true prince, of whom he is the natural vassal,—what is all this confusion and delusion but injustice, and intemperance and cowardice and ignorance, and every form of vice?

424

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Exactly so.

425

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And if the nature of justice and injustice be known, then the meaning of acting unjustly and being unjust, or, again, of acting justly, will also be perfectly clear?

426

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What do you mean? he said.

427

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Why, I said, they are like disease and health; being in the soul just what disease and health are in the body.

428

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How so? he said.

429

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Why, I said, that which is healthy causes health, and that which is unhealthy causes disease.

430

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Yes.

431

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And just actions cause justice, and unjust actions cause injustice?

432

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That is certain.

433

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And the creation of health is the institution of a natural order and government of one by another in the parts of the body; and the creation of disease is the production of a state of things at variance with this natural order?

434

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True.

435

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And is not the creation of justice the institution of a natural order and government of one by another in the parts of the soul, and the creation of injustice the production of a state of things at variance with the natural order?

436

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Exactly so, he said.

437

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Then virtue is the health and beauty and well-being of the soul, and vice the disease and weakness and deformity of the same?

438

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True.

439

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And do not good practices lead to virtue, and evil practices to vice?

440

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Assuredly.

441

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Still our old question of the comparative advantage of justice and injustice has not been answered: Which is the more profitable, to be just and act justly and practise virtue, whether seen or unseen of gods and men, or to be unjust and act unjustly, if only unpunished and unreformed?

442

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In my judgment, Socrates, the question has now become ridiculous. We know that, when the bodily constitution is gone, life is no longer endurable, though pampered with all kinds of meats and drinks, and having all wealth and all power; and shall we be told that when the very essence of the vital principle is undermined and corrupted, life is still worth having to a man, if only he be allowed to do whatever he likes with the single exception that he is not to acquire justice and virtue, or to escape from injustice and vice; assuming them both to be such as we have described?

443

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Yes, I said, the question is, as you say, ridiculous. Still, as we are near the spot at which we may see the truth in the clearest manner with our own eyes, let us not faint by the way.

444

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Certainly not, he replied.

445

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Come up hither, I said, and behold the various forms of vice, those of them, I mean, which are worth looking at.

446

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I am following you, he replied: proceed.

447

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I said, The argument seems to have reached a height from which, as from some tower of speculation, a man may look down and see that virtue is one, but that the forms of vice are innumerable; there being four special ones which are deserving of note.

448

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What do you mean? he said.

449

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I mean, I replied, that there appear to be as many forms of the soul as there are distinct forms of the State.

450

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How many?

451

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There are five of the State, and five of the soul, I said.

452

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What are they?

453

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The first, I said, is that which we have been describing, and which may be said to have two names, monarchy and aristocracy, accordingly as rule is exercised by one distinguished man or by many.

454

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True, he replied.

455

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But I regard the two names as describing one form only; for whether the government is in the hands of one or many, if the governors have been trained in the manner which we have supposed, the fundamental laws of the State will be maintained.

456

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That is true, he replied.

457

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